| Author |
Message |
shaker
Member
|
# Posted: 17 Jul 2005 23:16
Reply
Greetings.
(Can I request that the moderator that deleted this post please permit some discussion on this topic instead of deleting this one as well? I should think that my views, which I'm sure at least 1 or 2 other people share, have some merit. Thank you.)
Okay, hours and hours earlier today (now yesterday), I entered the CCC, and was greeted not too much later by spoilers. Now, in the distant past, official posts were made concerning the revelation of spoilers, but as noticed with the Harry Potter book and, before that the Star Wars Episode 3, no sense of foresight was made.
With regards to Episode 3, it took over 24 hours for anything to be posted on it, but it permitted those in the ONLY SW room we have to post spoilers - if we wanted to do anything else, we had to camp out in the D'Deridex (unreasonable, I said then, and I say again now). With the Harry Potter book, however, no official or unofficial post has been made, and anyone who hasn't read the book yet would thusly be advised to stay out of the chatrooms until they've read the book.
Fair? Hardly.
Real? Unfortunately.
So, whose job is it to inform the community that spoilers are not permitted until x-date? The Executive Council, because any posting by any other member is (a)not an official post and thus carries no weight, and (b)is the job of the EC and is thus infringing on their job.
So, as such, I implore the Executive Council to please take strongly into consideration the fact that some people actually do not want to hear spoilers, about how such-and-such did thus-and-such to so-and-so, because if we did want to hear them, we just wouldn't go out and buy the book. Instead, we actually do want to buy the book, read it, and enjoy it. And, also, with the fact that I'm sure the EC is aware of such important things as the release of a very popular book (over 500 people were standing inside the local Barnes & Noble to get this book before it came out) or the release of Episode 3 (i'm not even going to state the number of people standing for this in Wilmington, but you couldn't even park there were so many people), I would emplore them, and everyone else, to use a little common courtesy.
Regards,
Shaker
|
nobbe
Member
|
# Posted: 18 Jul 2005 00:27
Reply
For the record, I deleted the other post because it wasn't worded in a manner that respected the prime directives. =)
However, this one is acceptable. I would like to point out that it could also be the function of the Intelligence And Security Agency Director (or Assistants) to make such a post.
I was delayed in posting the note about Harry Potter on the updates because of some real life concerns. IE: Not having power due to a neighbour blowing out a few circuits in the house and my being slightly ill.
EDIT: I would like to point out to Kevin that Iain made his post on the updates banning spoilers for Episode 3 on the release date of Episode III...
|
iain
Moderator
|
# Posted: 18 Jul 2005 03:51
Reply
I simply didn't think of a Spoiler Policy for the Harry Potter book, and no one emailed me to suggest it. If they had, we would have had one in place sooner.
And, Shaker, with many people registering with OTF solely because of Episode III, and logging straight into the CCC, is it reasonable to tell them ALL that they have to move to a Star Trek room to talk about it - or shoot them out if they don't? (Bearing in mind, of course, that it would be inappropriate to shoot them out without two prior warnings, and at this point many spoilers would have been posted.) This was a logical policy to put in place, because we have only one Star Wars room.
Iain
|
kittykat
Member
|
# Posted: 18 Jul 2005 04:05
Reply
read faster 
|
nobbe
Member
|
# Posted: 18 Jul 2005 04:38
Reply
Although, one could always avoid all the Outpost chatrooms until one was finished...
|
daecrist
Member
|
# Posted: 18 Jul 2005 08:44
Reply
The lack of an update regarding spoilers is also sort of my fault. I would have put one up that day, but I was rather busy sleeping because I'd stayed up the night before waiting on my copy of the book and then reading it.
Although it should be noted that the release of the Harry Potter book and the Revenge of the Sith release is sort of comparing apples to oranges. We have a large Star Wars community with a chat room to go with it. There isn't really a vocal Harry Potter community at the Outpost. If you're trying to avoid spoilers then you might be better served to avoid the Interweb for awhile. It sucks that the book was spoiled for you, but that's the nature of the beast on the web.
P.S. The spoiler you heard, whatever it was, might not necessarily be true. Perhaps you should just read the book instead of posting flame bait about the book?
|
hongjun
Member
|
# Posted: 18 Jul 2005 08:56
Reply
Hmm,
Lets see, first off the Star Wars spoilers, yes after a long serious look at the spoiler issue we decided that it was unfair to stop people talking about the last film in the Star Wars room. After all people would want to be able to discuss the film in a room with avatars they wanted to use.
That delayed a posting of a notice, but not by 24 hours, I know I checked!
Did you know that when the EC talks about something that we try to allow time for all to respond? The EC is pretty big and we live in different countries and hemispheres and time zones and that means some things take time, but is better to take the time and come up with something that works rather than one of us going ahead and guessing what everyone else thinks!
Contrary to rumors we don't live under the much abused ping pong table in Andrews Basement, it way too expensive to live there!
I do not expect to read Harry potter till August sometime, I will therefore try to step out when I hear spoilers being talked about, if I do hear stuff I will shrug and move on and still I hope enjoy the book when I do read it.
But hey lets be honest folks, I think by now that we are all aware by now that if we walk into a chat room in OTF after a launch of something like this as sure as CT tells JJ to cook his dinner and JJ thawps CT someone is talking to someone about the book or film and saying hey did you like the bit where the teletubbies took over the world!!!!
Hong
|
polson
Member
|
# Posted: 18 Jul 2005 09:58
Reply
I confess...I don't care. I don't give spoilers unless someone wants them, I never give them in chat but only in private conversation because it's rude to give away stuff when someone wants to be surprised. Me? I tend to seek out spoilers. Unless it's Stargate. I want to be surprised with Stargate. Which is impossible because I'm a season behind.
But I don't care enough to go on a crusade about spoiling chatters.
|
deanna
Member
|
# Posted: 18 Jul 2005 12:55
Reply
Please bear in mind that the powers that be that attempt to keep the day to day operations of this establishment running smoothly are as discussed, rediscussed and discussed again about as much as the frigging Goverments that run the known world. I really dont' think this topic has anything whatsoever to do with spoilers or HP or anything else. It's just one more chance to voice your disgust with alot of us.
Kevin, I for one...really could care less if you got offended by chatting online before you finished reading the long anticipated book.
There...apathy stated 
And yes I feel better now...any and all complaints about the above mentioned rant can go directly to deanna@outpost10f.com
PS...my concerns came because I actually read the first deleted thread.
Thanks for cleaning it up and making it a bit less ECbashing...(again)
|
shaker
Member
|
# Posted: 18 Jul 2005 15:45
Reply
Regarding the acolades on cleaning up the post to be resubmitted - no problem. Prolly best the bloody thing was deleted to allow for a better one anyway.
As for the lack of a post regarding it, I know that there are many that honestly don't care. While the comparison of SW to HP is indeed apples to oranges, the subjected issues regarding posts restricting spoilers in certain room is - we would think - not. From the attention the first books received, it would be expected by normal consensus that the response here would be just as much, if not more. Likewise, the response regarding Episode 3 was expected - and realized - in much the same way.
Regarding the timing of the post for SW, it may very well have been done within 24 hours, I don't remember the timestamp. Even so, irregardless of the time frame that the EC lives under, a conversation regarding it shouldn't take longer than a week, one would assume, save issues of connectivity, viruses, sickness, and the Bubonic Plague. Ad hoc as each issue is, I feel (rightly or wrongly) that each adds up in itself.
Of course, if it's simply the belief of the majority of the Outpost that "when (insert name of movie/book/etc) comes out, spoilers are expected and welcome", then such a belief needs to be communicated to the rest of the community so that we don't, in effect, alienate those who don't (a)get the book/movie/etc at the appointed hour, or (b)read/watch said medium straight through without relief. After all, it's the community that we rely on for support and longevity, and the community has a right and duty to know the expectations that not only the governing council has but the general consensus as well - I should think.
PS: Mucho Gracias to Tom for el poste on el updates boarde
|
nobbe
Member
|
# Posted: 18 Jul 2005 22:29
Reply
This is Tom being very grumpy. I'm stepping out of the role of LOTR SC on this one and in no way shape or form does this reflect on the official views or or thoughts of the Executive Council.
I, Thomas, a real life human being would like to say thank you to those members of the Outpost10f.com community (and yes, I can name them on 1 hand) that have taken time to write a note to the EC saying "Thanks for your time and effort putting on an event." or "Thanks for the award." or "Thanks for the promotion."
And to the rest of the people that moan and groan because they didn't get a promotion, award, just take the staff who keep this place running for granted, complain because someone won't give you access to something or give you a damn custom rank - thanks for making Outpost10f.com seem like a chore. Thank you for making me want to throw my computer out. Thank you for making me want to leave one of my favourite hobbies because I get discouraged that no one really gives a damn about the hours and hours that I and many people put into this place.
Oh - and for those that don't believe I'm a real person...here's a picture of me:
Edit:(No, this isn't directed specificially at Kevin, this just happened to be the thread that got my rant.)
|
brady
Member
|
# Posted: 18 Jul 2005 23:10
Reply
*l* One minute someone whines about 10F being governed by a tyranical autocracy where it's 'someone's way or the highway' and the next minute someone whines about how 10F is governed by a bureaucracy of unorganised and apathetic people who slip up all the time and shouldn't be in the position. And this is a general reference, not directly related to Shaker's concern.
Well, to set the record straight, 10F is managed by a bunch of people who do it for a hobby, as Tom mentioned. We don't get paid, we have real lives, computers break down, we forget things, we're just people. Except for Iain. We're still discussing his technical classification.
I was watching this doco the other day where the director of the X-Men was interviewed, and he said something I could totally relate to when asked about how fans took the film. He said you can sometimes please some people, but you can never please everyone on the internet.
We in the EC will be adding this to our wall of mottos next to "All in time...", "It's just a chat", "DELETE them", "10F is what you make it" and "well I've just had some coffee..".
Cheers!
B
|
deanna
Member
|
# Posted: 19 Jul 2005 04:38
Reply
I personally think that Guinan has changed the coffee and I will be discussing this with her, it's on my to - do list. Oh WAIT I'm on leave from that "to-do" list *hands the list to Zild* Please remind Guinan we are no longer serving "crazy" as a drink, and the next time someone rants to me like a brat (well unless you are a brat and those complaints are filed elsewhere), my response (which is being added to the wall of flame) "Did you drink a cup of crazy this morning?"
So I ask you...Did you? Come on fess up....and for the love of trees everywhere, drink something else!
Oh and for future reference, when you get upset with the EC, please make a note of this, as I'm not repeating myself again...Hobbbbie is now on the EC, and any and all fault lies with him
Thank you and have a nice non crazy, AWAY from the computer day!
|
bria
Member
|
# Posted: 19 Jul 2005 14:42
Reply
I agree with Tom here... it's the same for the ISA, actually. You get people moaning and complaining about decisions all the time. "Thank you" is few and far in between, and then usually from the "n00bs" that people seem to enjoy bashing so much. I think that there's way too much being taken for granted.
Okay, so the EC made a mistake. Well, it's not even a real mistake. They were just a tad slow. This stands against how many times that they've done things on time, perfectly, and better than I, for one, could do them. Think about that, maybe? If I was to start a forum thread every time the EC did something right, Brady'd probably DELETE me for spamming or somesuch...
Okay, so you're unhappy with something they did. How many times have they done something you were happy about? How many times did they do something that you just took for granted, although hours of work went into it? How many times did you tell them "Thanks"? And how many hours of work, how much energy and effort do these people devote to their job in order to keep OTF up and running?
They're not getting paid for it. They do it because they enjoy doing it. They do it in their own free time, besides mountains of work that I know many of them have to do in rl.
Yeah. But when they slip up, you're on the prey quicker than a tabaga on a vrelt. I mean, sorry, but that's just not fair. It's totally one-sided, it's hypocritical (I'm sure we could all do a much better job than the people who have been selected to do it, since obviously neither the people selecting them nor the people being selected have a clue about what's really needed), it's plain rude.
Go get some distance, take a look at the whole picture, then think about it again.  Oh, and while you're at it, take a deep breath...
Bria
|
polson
Member
|
# Posted: 19 Jul 2005 20:43
Reply
I'd just like to point out, I've thanked both CT and Jon and Hong for doing things for me they didn't have to do. *nods* In case someone thought I was a whiner (okay, so I am) and that's why I always get my way. I only get my way because somehow I've managed to endear myself to certain folks, I'm not entirely sure how it happened.  "Igor, our mind control works! Let us unleash it upon the world! Muwahahaha!"
Okay, but as for the thread, I agree 100% with cutting the brass some slack (surprise, Polson thinks this). Everyone here is just a real person with a real world to deal with beyond this place. Which is why I get so ticked off when people don't take me seriously when I'm being serious, because there's more to me than what you see. The same goes for everyone, and I'm not sure any of us would wave our hands and say, "Me! Pick me to yell at when things aren't functioning the way you want them to function, I like it! I've got no other purpose than to make you happy! Pick me!" And we're all guilty of the "you're here to serve ME" attitude, *raises hand*. Maybe some understanding to go with the griping?
Did that make any sense?
|
nicoll
Member
|
# Posted: 20 Jul 2005 05:11
Reply
It can statistically be shown that if someone has a good experience they will tell 5 people, if they have a bad one they will tell 9.
You all live in a whining culture, people like to complain. Now that you've noticed this, you are complaining about it . I'm not exactly one to talk here but if you are trying to claim the moral high ground, this whole complaint acctually makes you a bit of a hypocrite.
Now that I've said this and undoubtedly incurred the wrath of someone I should point out that many of us* in the community do recognise the work that goes into the running of this site by the members of the EC, and many others who do their part. ( <-this is me covering my bases with people who are not on the EC but do lots of work for the outpost.)
Because of this I do believe that an implied thankyou should be assumed from everyone who does not write a complaint.
* During this post the phrase "many of us" was used, this should be qualified by pointing out that only the author of this post was consulted as to it's contents and as such the views expressed here belong solely to said author.
Nicoll - now that I've said something nice today I have to go and do something really bad
|
nobbe
Member
|
# Posted: 20 Jul 2005 06:24
Reply
Unfortunatly, the reason I complained is because I'm the sort of person that will assume nothing unless a point is clearly made and therefore an assumed 'thanks' doesn't exist.
|
xemxija
Member
|
# Posted: 20 Jul 2005 07:41
Reply
This thread is brilliant. Thank you people for brightening up my day.
|
polson
Member
|
# Posted: 20 Jul 2005 09:36
Reply
Nobbleh...thank you. I don't know what you do around here or how you hold together the geek world I live in, but I know you have something to do with it or it wouldn't be so fashonable. Thank you for your contribution to OTF.
|
jj
Member
|
# Posted: 20 Jul 2005 11:32
Reply
Are you kidding me? Are we actually having a topic about something so ridiculous? Mleh.
This reminds me of the episode of "Friends" where I think it was Rachel and Joey each got the other person to read a favorite book of theirs. So Joey let slip a spoiler from the book Rachel was reading, and she got mad and said "Beth dies!" (I guess I shouldn't say what book he was reading so as not to spoil it for anyone...) And I think some childish banter followed.
While it's unfortunate that Shaker got caught up in a spoiler, it's not the end of the world. Blasting the EC for some percieved personal injury just shows a lack of that common courtesy that he implores from everyone else.
I don't think that Nobbe or anyone else on the EC should feel a need to apologize about this. This is not a mistake by an apathetic committee, if you saw how many emails I had to read when I came back from vacation you'd see they are far from it. I really don't think it should be the EC's job to have to hold each member's hand and say "now Johnny, we know that you had quick access to this book and/or you're a faster reader than everyone else, so please make sure you don't say anything in the chat room about it."
When SW:EP3 came out, it took CT and I a couple of days to have a chance to see it. So knowing that the internet is a public place, I simply made the choice not to log in until after we saw the movie and in that way kept from reading spoilers. I actually had a near-miss in the chat room a couple of days before the movie came out, but it doesn't make sense to blame the EC because someone in a sci-fi/fantasy community was talking about a sci-fi movie...
If I felt as strongly about Harry Potter, common sense would tell me that if I wanted to read the book spoiler-free, that going to a CHAT room in a sci-fi/fantasy community of people where I can be pretty confident will include a lot of this book's fans might not be the best place for me to go.
As for being thankful for what people do at OTF, I would just say think before you speak/write, take responsibility for your own actions instead of expecting a "government handout," and try to be a mature part of the solution to a problem when you see one instead of whining and making more of a problem.
|
bria
Member
|
# Posted: 20 Jul 2005 11:34
Reply
If you'll notice, no one that complaining in general was a bad thing. Tom mentioned complaining about specific things, keeping in mind how much work the people being complained to are doing as it is. Which I can't see being the same thing as saying "Complaining is wrong".
And that's completely aside from the fact that you can't stamp every complaint with the same label.
Apart from that - if people are going to acknowledge the bad things the EC do, they should acknowledge the good things equally, and I don't think there's any arguing that logic.
Not complaining is the same as saying thanks? Not saying "I hate you" means "I love you"? Not saying "You're ugly" means "You're beautiful"? Think about that...
*very clearly, precisely and definitely doesn't state that the EC is doing a crap job*
Reverse psycholo-whatnow?
Oh, and no, the EC don't give a damn about OTF and its members. That's exactly why they stick around and do all that work without getting paid. That's exactly why they made it onto the EC in the first place.
... thanks guys!
Bria
|
brady
Member
|
# Posted: 20 Jul 2005 19:54
Reply
Heh-heh. Man in Hat drinks whiskey with his ice. =)
|
shaker
Member
|
# Posted: 20 Jul 2005 22:01
Reply
Well, I'm only slightly amused that apparently my views are totally contrary to that of the entire Outpost. Additionally, it seems I have become a public enemy in the eyes of others, regardless of the TRUE intent of my post. Instead of trying to alert others to the fact that people have feelings too and people have wants and wishes, I have only managed to (1) piss people off, (2)receive hostile comments, (3) become some sort of anti-ISA and anti-EC twit, (4)receive plenty of "you *censored* *censored*, i'm blocking you now" on MSN, AIM, and ICQ, and (5) completely become apathetic myself to the concerns of others.
THEREIN, I declare that my original post was bullcrap, ignorant, rediculous, unbased-on-truth, totally incorrect, and that people at this place actually DO care so much about others that they will, instead of work together to figure out the issue, personally bash the living hell out of the person who posted, simply because he didn't get on his hands and knees and kiss the rear ends of everyone that has worked their arses off to make this place better - heaven forbid anyone actually think I myself did anything other'n drag this place into the proverbial dumps, right?
If you see sarcasm, you're not blind. I never would have imagined that attempting to push things in a positive direction and prompt the governing body that makes all the decisions and will notify anyone that has stepped on their toes of it to consider such things in the future would result in such a hateful, negative, demeaning, degrading direction toward me.
As such, I sincerely apologize, and will endeavor to stay away from the Outpost, considering the over 40 people (literally) that have blasted/flamed/etc me OUTSIDE of the forums.
I hope everyone has a most wonderful and pleasant day. Cheers!
|
shaker
Member
|
# Posted: 20 Jul 2005 23:34
Reply
Okay... Bria said breathe, so I'll try. Granted, i'm some sort of alien apparently, so I don't know if I do that or not... oh well.
In any case, so everyone knows, I've read over all the posts. More than once. And attempted to figure out "ookaay.. so, how do you actually post something like this whole thing in a more tactful way". Frankly, I don't see how. it's a nasty issue, this site is a hobby, and that's that.
Retrospectively, there are many ways I could have handled it. Now, I'm not going to name them all, for a number of reasons. But I didn't handle it in the best way possible. Nuff said there.
As long as there are governing groups, someone will disagree. Apparently, I'm alone in this matter, and I'll smile and accept that at face value where it stands. I don't agree with a number of things, but one thing I'm sure we all agree on is that OTF is important to us, no matter how strictly we follow the "hobby" line. Unfortunately, I seem to be following the path of a certain unnameable OTF past-member, and utterly soiling my name here. But i don't want my OTF career here and the efforts I HAVE made to be associated with this... carfuffle as Andrew put it so eloquently.
So, after everyone is through tossing rotten eggs, tomatoes, and more at me, and throwing me down the perverbal stairs a few dozen times, please accept my apologies at offending damn near everyone. It was not my intention, and I'll try to figure out better ways of getting things done in the future ... after taking a lengthy break from a rather sizable aspect of this site.
|
kittykat
Member
|
# Posted: 21 Jul 2005 04:16
Reply
I stand by my original comment
|
kevkc
Member
|
# Posted: 29 Jul 2005 10:06
Reply
I have the following things to say...
Firstly, as a CL3, I started a tradition of emailing the SC to say thanks whenever I got promoted beginning with my CL3 promotion. It's one I intend to keep up. That is, if people are ever crazy enough to promote me. Loonies.
Secondly, Tom. You're hot.
Thirdly, Brady. I cant remember the last time I laughed so hard. Also, poor unclassified Iain 
Fourthly and finally, It always gets on my nerves when people do this. First, they rant. Then, they find out that people disagree with them. Then they get all "Oh, never mind. Obviously, I'm the scum of the earth. I retract my statement. I'll go and live in a cave then, shall I?" If nothing else, at least stick to your guns and be consistent. Dont get all whingy when you go against the status quo. Going against the status quo encourages debate-and, as I'm fond of telling the minions of ENT, as long as conversations are had constructively (which, for the record, I dont think this one really was), there's nothing wrong. Opinions and differences are aired, a consensus might be reached-but above all, everyone has their say.
To those with a penchant for this (and I know a few), I say this. Dont, for the love of goodness, get all whingy just because people dont agree with you. Grow up and stop licking your non-existant wounds.
That said, while I, *ahem* agree with the consensus on this one, I still consider OtherKevin a pal and just because I disagree with him, I dont have less respect for him.
And that, m'dear maidens, is my two cents.
'n' stuff.
KC
|
