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babel
Member
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# Posted: 11 Oct 2006 09:24
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As a current Guilds team leader, and as one of the people who davised the blueprint for the Guilds set-up, I can't see how 'de-centralising' it would help at all. it wouldn't harm it but to be honest I have all the leeway I need in running Writers. If it ain't broke don't fix it. As for departments 'slowly dying', well . . . if that is happening it is up to the OTF membership to sort it out by hard work and effort, simple as.
David, it's always good to raise these topics for discussion. Anyone who knows my OTF track record knows I am all for debating ideas like this. 
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citron
Member
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# Posted: 11 Oct 2006 09:25
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<!--QuoteBegin--skevington+Oct. 11 2006,07:43--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (skevington @ Oct. 11 2006,07:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Woah, way to trash and disrespect someone's idea there guys, very nicely done, why not take a moment to pat yourself on the back, you <b>ALL</b> deserve it! <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smi.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--> <br><br>Dmitri<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>Why thanks! I couldn't pat myself on the back, but I did say to myself that I'm glad I can express my opinions as freely as David could. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smi.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
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crazytexan
Member
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# Posted: 11 Oct 2006 09:27
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<!--QuoteBegin--babel+Oct. 11 2006,09:19--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (babel @ Oct. 11 2006,09:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->I lost all respect for him the day he told me I looked fat in my 7 of 9 catsuit <!--emo&:o--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/ann.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':o'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>Oi! <!--emo&:o--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/ann.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':o'><!--endemo--><br><br>I said you had "nice curves"...besides, it was the auburn locks that had me fixated. <!--emo&:?--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/srp.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':?'><!--endemo-->
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crazytexan
Member
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# Posted: 11 Oct 2006 09:32
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The Hoff is all about expressing yourself... 
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jaquaia
Member
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# Posted: 11 Oct 2006 10:37
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<!--QuoteBegin--crazytexan+Oct. 11 2006,09:32--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (crazytexan @ Oct. 11 2006,09:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->The Hoff is all about expressing yourself... <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/haw.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo--><br><br><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/chr/spec/Hoffdoss.jpg"><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>CT, post any more pictures like that and I am so hunting you down! <!--emo&:o--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/ann.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':o'><!--endemo--> Do you want to scar me for life? <!--emo&:(--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:?--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/srp.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':?'><!--endemo-->
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citron
Member
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# Posted: 11 Oct 2006 11:01
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CT is just so cool.. I wish I were like him 
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jj
Member
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# Posted: 11 Oct 2006 11:37
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CT's the coolest, and I should know!
As for de-centralizing OTF departments, well that just doesn't make sense really. The primary purpose of departments is to do things that support OTF and its members. That's not to say that if a project was created that had a wider appeal, it couldn't be marketed to a wider audience. But who says that has to be done as something "outside" the OTF community and structure?
Personally I think there is room to explore that sort of thing within the current system. But I just don't know that the question has been asked before. Instead of just assuming the answer will be no, why not explore options with your SM's and SC/DSC's? Remember the only dumb question is the one that goes unasked.
Unless by "de-centralizing" one is really trying to say "outside the realm of OTF's PD's", as in the recent OTF vs. Myspace thread. If this is another take on that, then it's really a whole 'nother issue.
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teekay
Member
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# Posted: 11 Oct 2006 11:59
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To go back to the original argument: do we in the departments have enough power to do what we want to do?
Speaking as AssMan of the Writer's Guild, I'd say yeah, we do. We make our own homepages, we put stuff on it, we have competitions, we have people working with us who coordinate the efforts of all guilds (and above that, all departments) so that we don't invent the wheel over and over again, etc etc.
I don't feel powerless in what I do (and for cripe's sake, it's a hobby, there's no "power" about it in the first place, just "fun").
If you feel you don't have enough power to do what you want in your department / task force / group / whatever, speak to the people in charge. They don't bite.
And another thing - people who know me know that I'm the last one to discourage new ideas.  However, the departments that we have right now are far from being used to their whole potential. I mean, how many of you have already taken part in this month's Writers' Guild Competition?
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lucient
Member
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# Posted: 11 Oct 2006 12:18
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<!--QuoteBegin--babel+Oct. 11 2006,09:19--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (babel @ Oct. 11 2006,09:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--aeon+Oct. 10 2006,21:24--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (aeon @ Oct. 10 2006,21:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->CT, I shall respect you even more now, which is almost impossible, because I already respect you so much. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smi.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--><br><br>*huggles*<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>I lost all respect for him the day he told me I looked fat in my 7 of 9 catsuit <!--emo&:o--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/ann.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':o'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>CT was doing everybody else a favor telling you that <!--emo&:P--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/ton.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':P'><!--endemo--><br><br>that is a crime against humanity to let you out of your house in that outift <!--emo&:P--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/ton.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':P'><!--endemo--><br><br>Luc
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babel
Member
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# Posted: 11 Oct 2006 12:35
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<!--QuoteBegin--lucient+Oct. 11 2006,12:18--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (lucient @ Oct. 11 2006,12:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->[quote=babel,Oct. 11 2006,09:19][quote=aeon,Oct. 10 2006,21:24]CT, I shall respect you even more now, which is almost impossible, because I already respect you so much. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smi.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--><br><br>*huggles*<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>I lost all respect for him the day he told me I looked fat in my 7 of 9 catsuit <!--emo&:o--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/ann.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':o'><!--endemo-->[/quote]<br>CT was doing everybody else a favor telling you that <!--emo&:P--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/ton.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':P'><!--endemo--><br><br>that is a crime against humanity to let you out of your house in that outift <!--emo&:P--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/ton.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':P'><!--endemo--><br><br>Luc[/quote]<br>What are you saying? Right, you asked for this! <!--emo&:o--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/ann.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':o'><!--endemo--> <br><br><br><br><img src="http://www.alderhill.net/stuff/jeremy/7of9_.jpg">
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jaquaia
Member
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# Posted: 11 Oct 2006 12:47
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I don't know what's worse, that photo or the one CT posted of The Hoff? 
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teekay
Member
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# Posted: 11 Oct 2006 13:47
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<!--QuoteBegin--jaquaia+Oct. 11 2006,12:47--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (jaquaia @ Oct. 11 2006,12:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't know what's worse, that photo or the one CT posted of The Hoff? <!--emo&:v--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/bro.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':v'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>There's <i>nothing</i> worse than The Hoff!
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jaquaia
Member
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# Posted: 12 Oct 2006 02:04
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<!--QuoteBegin--teekay+Oct. 11 2006,13:47--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (teekay @ Oct. 11 2006,13:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--jaquaia+Oct. 11 2006,12:47--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (jaquaia @ Oct. 11 2006,12:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't know what's worse, that photo or the one CT posted of The Hoff? <!--emo&:v--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/bro.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':v'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>There's <i>nothing</i> worse than The Hoff!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>Excellent point!
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brady
Member
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# Posted: 12 Oct 2006 05:39
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Ahoy!
My mantra has always been, "The Outpost is what you make it." In my experience SMs and SCs have always been given a great deal of freedom in managing their jurisdictions. I can tell you right now that the QC, VC and CiC don't have nearly enough time to be micro-managing. Although, CT does seem to have enough time on his hands to be running google image searches on The Hoff and Mr. T. I suggest everyone SPAMs the Help Desk to remedy that problem.
Thanks for opening this up for discussion David, but I don't really see the benefits in decentralising the Outpost. In fact, I see more benefit in encouraging all of our groups to work across departmental lines and pool their resources. This is the idea behind events like the recent Talk Like a Pirate weekend come month.
I'll be the first to admit there are kinks in the way we operate. We're not a professional organisation, we don't get paid to do what we do. We're certainly not perfect. BUT, I like to think we are open minded and we're happy to look over any suggestions you have to improve the way we do things.
As has been mentioned before, if you want to talk about what else you can do for the Outpost, how you can help or any ideas you might have, please do speak to your TL, AM or SM. My inbox is also always open too. Thanks for all the comments!
B
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deanna
Member
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# Posted: 12 Oct 2006 06:28
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*slips in and sees B is working again* Here precious.....come have a drink...*drags you off to the Cabana with an evil plan to get you to relax for a bit, or to just get you drunk and take advantage of you, whatever comes first* 
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bria
Member
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# Posted: 12 Oct 2006 06:53
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Andrew asked me to post this on his behalf, since his CC is retired and he can't do it himself. If you want to argue it, do so with him and not with me.
- Bria
----------
Hmm, interesting.
But I disagree.
Everyone seems to think that OTF needs to expand, broaden and add as many worthless trinkets, bells and gadgets as humanly possible in order to survive. I strongly and vehemently disagree. OTF has become so incredibly complex, riddled with some many unnecessary layers of paperwork and bureaucracy that it is being suffocated and dying in a stagnant mess of superfluous luxuries. People these days view OTF as some international company that is struggling against its modern competitors; a company whose stock price is going down faster than lead balloon. People are constantly trying to reinvent and re-establish OTF as something it was never intended to be, and will never be able to be. Everyone is dreaming up outlandish grandiose schema and constantly searching for bigger and better.
OTF is a chat room (well, series of, if we're being anal) and that's what we need to be focusing on. It's all when and good coming up with fantastic new ideas for departments and the likes (plans which, in my view, only add yet another layer of red-tape to an entity where, even today, it's difficult to navigate without being strangled by the already behemothic mass of said red-tape), but that won't attract new blood to OTF. When someone pops by, the see, first and for most, a chat room. We need to look at what OTF has (or had, and has since lost) and focus on improving that.
In the ideal world, the main thing OTF requires is a complete devolution. Go back to her humble roots, go back to times when she has a pleasant place to spend time when people weren't focused on promotions and getting a bigger armoury. There is so much strive, dischord and disharmony around OTF these days, and 95% of it can traces its roots back to promotions or departments.
OTF, people, is a community chat room. The promotions and department should always come as secondary, or even tertiary, issues. Of course, absolutely everyone will say they don't care about promotions and departments and are here for the "spirit" of OTF and it's people; they'll feed you rhetoric about not being swayed or influenced by dreams of power and prestige. Sorry, but that's all a load of rubbish. Not everyone is like that. In fact, it seems very few people are. I've been able to give up all my power and privileges, and I find OTF far more enjoyable without worrying about them; without worrying if person A is breaking the PDs; without worrying about that project which is now 2 days late - OMG!
That, however, is for a different discussion. I've trundled off on a tangent: sorry.
What we need is to put all these whistles and bells further - much further - down the priorities list and begin looking at how to improve what OTF was always intended to be. Let's focus on how to bring back the good days when people truly did come around for a good place to spend an hour or two, without fear of arguments, over-zealous security officers breathing down their necks (again, another discussion for another time), without waiting like dogs on heat for the alert status to turn blue; go back to the time when people didn't piss and moan if they didn't get an award or promotion.
Simplicity is the way forward.
Cheers,
-AJ (retrd)
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polson
Member
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# Posted: 12 Oct 2006 09:45
Reply
They want to do what to my Outpost?
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kayana
Member
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# Posted: 12 Oct 2006 15:34
Reply
Babel-
OH MY EYES MY EYES MY EYES!!!!!
sweet lord.
*LOL*
Kayananananana
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stewie
Member
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# Posted: 14 Oct 2006 15:44
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I have to agree with AJ here, The best way forwards is focusing on the chatroom(s) itself/themselves. Though the way forward is far from simple, fact is HTML (perl) chat is no competion for the big draws like world of warcraft or secondlife... or any other MPRwhatchamacallits....
the chat needs to be "enhanced" (not 3d stuff) but theres a lot of simple forums out there that have more features than the outpost chatrooms currently, for example xmb forums with their "hacks"...
I think if anything is to happen to the departments, they need to be brought back in line and get busy thinking up useful draws for the outpost, A lot of departments are waving the "creativity" banner, but losing the "brand" in the process, I remmeber being involved in the V.2 drafting stage, one of the things proposed was that the departments be made to be uniform in layout and project management. now when some poor soul stumbles on a department page on google or something, its hard to even find even the colors of the outpost let alone the logo... its so well hidden by the department pages sense of individuality ....so no... standardise the departments, or else cut them off. If departments want to be "free" to do what they want, then go awol... find your own hosting, your own staff, and don't expect promotions..
btw CT still waiting for that e-mail 
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david1
Member
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# Posted: 15 Oct 2006 02:01
Reply
<!--QuoteBegin--stewie+Oct. 14 2006,15:44--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (stewie @ Oct. 14 2006,15:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->I have to agree with AJ here, The best way forwards is focusing on the chatroom(s) itself/themselves. Though the way forward is far from simple, fact is HTML (perl) chat is no competion for the big draws like world of warcraft or secondlife... or any other MPRwhatchamacallits....<br>the chat needs to be "enhanced" (not 3d stuff) but theres a lot of simple forums out there that have more features than the outpost chatrooms currently, for example xmb forums with their "hacks"...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>We've tried that kinda talk, on what to do with the chatrooms ... in another thread *lmao* te otf vs myspace one... >.< nicely titled ey...<br><br>...and even though there was plenty of fresh idea's thrown around, Andrew Maxwel, came into the chatroom and protested theres nothing wrong with the site, or the chatrooms, and the thread subsequently died.
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david1
Member
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# Posted: 15 Oct 2006 02:05
Reply
<!--QuoteBegin--stewie+Oct. 14 2006,15:44--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (stewie @ Oct. 14 2006,15:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think if anything is to happen to the departments, they need to be brought back in line and get busy thinking up useful draws for the outpost, A lot of departments are waving the "creativity" banner, but losing the "brand" in the process, I remmeber being involved in the V.2 drafting stage, one of the things proposed was that the departments be made to be uniform in layout and project management. now when some poor soul stumbles on a department page on google or something, its hard to even find even the colors of the outpost let alone the logo... its so well hidden by the department pages sense of individuality ....so no... standardise the departments, or else cut them off. If departments want to be "free" to do what they want, then go awol... find your own hosting, your own staff, and don't expect promotions..<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>Well, heres a question, how do we place the OTF brand in one of the departments?<br><br>Im currently redesigning the whole ent site, so if i was to encorperate the OTF brand into it, how would i do it? place the logo in it? <br><br>This is my problem theres little to link the 2 with, other then they're hosted on the same site.<br><br>So do please throw some idea's my way <!--emo&:?--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/srp.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':?'><!--endemo-->
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