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rpmobsession
Member
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# Posted: 24 Jun 2013 14:37
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Tanya, I was just making a joke. In all these times of discussing "what went wrong" it all filters back to how the place is just very very different than it used to Be in whomever's "hay day" that is complaining. Management always gets blamed....sometimes valid, sometimes not. And, we determine it's all because Maxwell left.....(or, basically, Hal isn't Maxwell.) I don't feel there is any fixing our "issues", and for years, I'm all for letting the place die back to just a chatroom with no concern for work/changes/updates/teams/red tape/etC.
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rpmobsession
Member
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# Posted: 24 Jun 2013 14:38
Reply
Oh yeah....anyone track down someone with forum moderating ability? .....Still haven't figured out how to delete from my phone.
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tanneffel
Moderator
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# Posted: 24 Jun 2013 17:00
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There really aren't forum moderating abilities. Once you post, that's it. You may get a 5 minute window to edit. I just email the execs list and HAL or Iain takes care of it if something needs to be seriously removed from the forums.
Joke or not ... This happens in every organization. People look back on the 'glory days' and want things to go back to the way they were. They want the same leader, they want the same structure and operations. But we are blind sometimes to the fact that things change with good reason. What worked 10 years ago isn't necessarily what's best for today, nor what's practical or even possible. This covers things like departments and monthly promotions - it worked then. It may not work now.
HAL and Iain were the correct answer when Andrew stepped down. And one day, I'm sure Lzrman will be the correct answer.
I agree that there'd be less conflict if we were just a chat with no departments nor promotions. But some people like to work together and build friendships and skills doing projects.
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crazytexan
Member
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# Posted: 24 Jun 2013 17:04 · Edited by: crazytexan
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"Activity and promotions decrease during the summer."
"So-and-so said/did/didn't do this, that, or the other."
"EC is busy/not doing their jobs, and they STILL don't get paid for it."
"Everyone has jobs/school/kids/personal stuff."
"OTF is broken/old/dead", and then huzzah! We're busy again and adding value to the atmosphere and community.
"OTF hasn't been the same since [old-timers or department names] were here."
"It's just a chatroom..."
Where have I heard this before? 
Relax, folks. Enjoy your summer and good 'ol OTF will be here when you get back to it at your convenience. 
And one day, I'm sure Lzrman will be the correct answer - Tanya
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david1
Member
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# Posted: 24 Jun 2013 20:02
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Quoting: tanneffel I'm sure Lzrman will be the correct answer
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trekkey
Member
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# Posted: 24 Jun 2013 23:33 · Edited by: trekkey
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Quoting: crazytexan Relax, folks. Enjoy your summer and good 'ol OTF will be here when you get back to it at your convenience.
Hiya, CT!
I agree that people are overreacting a bit. OTF isn't quite the thriving community I remember it to be, but I'd hardly say it's dead. Still, that doesn't mean people should stop talking about how the site could be improved or modernized.
I talked to Tanya about a couple of ideas that came to mind last night. It also might help to revamp the events section a bit. Having "Today's Events" and "Tomorrow's Events" worked well when the site was super active and there was an event happening fairly frequently. If you want to draw users in it might help to remove "Tomorrow's Events" altogether and replace it with a "Next Scheduled Event" field. That way, even if the closest event is, say, six months away, that date is one of the first things visitors see when they get on OTF and if they don't stick around now, they might keep that event in mind and pop back in six months. Just a thought.
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trinity
Member
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# Posted: 25 Jun 2013 00:32
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Quoting: crazytexan "Activity and promotions decrease during the summer." "So-and-so said/did/didn't do this, that, or the other." "EC is busy/not doing their jobs, and they STILL don't get paid for it." "Everyone has jobs/school/kids/personal stuff." "OTF is broken/old/dead", and then huzzah! We're busy again and adding value to the atmosphere and community. "OTF hasn't been the same since [old-timers or department names] were here." "It's just a chatroom..." Where have I heard this before?
I love you CT
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quincyw
Member
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# Posted: 25 Jun 2013 00:32
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Can I please add two things to this discussion?
1: "Lead, follow, or get out of the way." Thomas Paine (one of my rules of Command/Management)
2: "Be the change you want to be." Mohandas Ghandi (something my head office loves to trot out)
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soran
Member
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# Posted: 25 Jun 2013 00:38
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I'd just like to say that the drama is crazy. I mean you have people who do work hard for this site, but what about those of us who want to work on the site, and are met with people redirecting you to other people, dead ends, and roadblocks?
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tanneffel
Moderator
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# Posted: 25 Jun 2013 02:20
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Trekkey - I like that idea on Next Scheduled Event.
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zildjian
Member
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# Posted: 26 Jun 2013 14:14
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I'm glad to see this didn't continue as a bash-fest. I'd also like to believe that the PD's apply to the forums. If they haven't for a time in the past - they do now.
Irony: Considering that some who've voiced that the isa should be disbanded have also posted against the pd's proves that it is obviously still needed. I will work to get the post edited. Lets learn from it and move on. I don't think it is necessary to resort to such language. I know each of you and you're better then that.
Bottom line is OTF constantly changes - timeframes excluded. It is what things do. You can look to the past and complain, or, you can work with everyone to better whatever has your pants twisted. Nothing good will resort without remaining civil.
I'm Zild, and I approve this message?
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soka
Member
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# Posted: 26 Jun 2013 14:40
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Most of this thread was written while I was on vacation, and it's literally taken me ages to read this thread - because I regularly got so angry that I stopped reading till I cooled down again.
NOTE: All of the below is my opinion and I won't force it onto anyone - but if I didn't think it to be true I wouldn't type it down.
Robert started it with the intention of discussing the current problems of OTF.
Yes, he did concentrate on the EC a bit too much, but what then evolved was not pretty at all, it ended in a fight that got personal instead of discussing things.
I have my opinion about all of the accusations that were posted here, if you want to hear them ask me - but I won't post them to avoid relaunching the fight.
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soka
Member
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# Posted: 26 Jun 2013 14:40 · Edited by: soka
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So ... here is my opinion about some of the main matters raised
EC: That seems to be the main topic.
I have no doubt they/you have a busy life and are working on OTF-matters, but I also can understand people being frustrated if they are not hearing back anything.
Maybe it'd be possible to send back a quick message to people having sent a question/request saying Thanks, we've received and read your mail, but the matter will take some discussion. If you don't hear back from us within (enter time, 2 weeks or something) feel free to ask us for an update on the matter.
That kind of mail would not be a big workload but it would make sure people feel heard / ensure that the mail has actually arrived and they don't wonder if it's been swallowed by the local Sarlacc.
Promotions: Yes, of course they need to be earned. And they should not be given easily - depending on the level of it of course.
But as far as I can see there are a few people that could get one.
Let's be honest here - without the ability to get rewarded for their work many people wouldn't do any.
And that reward used to consist of Promotions. Or Awards. I'm surprised nobody mentioned them here actually.
Yes of course you say it's "just" a rank and stuff - but if you are honest deep down, most of you have put in work hoping for "just" that rank/award.
Now, with less going on at OTF there are less teams and less possiblities to finish things - so that means no option for people to earn any Promotion? Yearbook will be finished at Anniversary - several months till that, Union will be in 13 months, Marketing is only just starting, when will that be considered finished? Looking from the outside, Trivia isn't very active right now either (Hydra will probably jump at my throat for that but meh)
Sound like I mentioned everything Cameron's active in ... well, I guess that's because he just happens to be in so much. Maybe if he's putting in good effort into all of it then it should already count toward him. CL5 never was a really easy promotion but being a good Trivia Minion for a several months used to be enough for that, let alone working on all those other things.
Otherwise, Awards should be re-activated. They are nearly as good for motivating people as promotions, because you can show off proof of having actually done something for this place.
Working for ages without getting a reward of *some* kind is extremely demotivating.
I have dug out the udpate-post (#3720) where the change to the new Promotion System was announced and epxlained, if I may quote:
[...]In lieu of this [old] system, we shall be taking recommendations from any/all community members, who have been registered for longer than seven days, directly via email. These recommendations can be made for any member, at any time, and should be sent to execs@lists.outpost10f.com. Upon approval, the member recommended will receive their promotion at the earliest convenience - not necessarily at the end of the month.[...]
That sounds very different to what is currently in effect - but that's just my opinion.
I hadn't intended to write such a long essay about Promotions, but ... here it is.
ISA ... the EC has answered that question yesterday: Yes, we need it. And I completely agree.
If you think that that's because they made me ISA again you are wrong - I was hesitant about accepting it.
But what I had seen happening in the chat convinced me that ISA was badly needed, and because of that I accepted the offer in the end.
Quoting: robertwerner If someone hasn't had a issue in say (for example) 6mo-1yr that they didn't need to be L1 or L2d then they should have enough good marks to be ISA.
I agree that there should be the hope to be forgiven, but I think 6 months are too short. Depending on the severity of previous problems a year or two might work though.
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soka
Member
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# Posted: 26 Jun 2013 14:40 · Edited by: soka
Reply
Summer - is it the whole explanation?
No I don't think it is - Maybe it always was quieter in Summer, but it wasn't this dead. People used to come on for a bit at least in the evening if they could, and for Trivias.
I have no doubt that if a Trivia was announced for next weekend there would be a handful of people in the chat in time for it - enough to hold the Trivia if you aren't too demanding.
OTF can't go lie down dead just because it's summer and stop all events - maybe it won't work and not enough people will turn up - but if you don't try to hold it, it won't be held for sure.
If nothing happens and it's completely empty, those people who would come in for a while to chat or for a Trivia will look for another place that still *is* active in Summer. And eventually forget about checking OTF.
That results in even less people coming and it getting even quieter ... you get the idea.
Yes, you may feel stupid sitting in an empty chatroom or organising an event and there aren't enough people to hold it, or having to cut it short.
But let's say someone who hasn't been in for a while remembers us and decides to visit OTF again - possibly wanting to stick around again too... and looks at the Personnel List to see an empty room, do you think they'll enter? Even worse if the next check is the Updates board and the last event has been weeks ago? Or even a new person entering to find a chatroom with nothing but entry- and exit-lines dating back 12 hours or such - this has happened to me for the last few days for several times.
I believe there are problems, but this thread, having had such a bad start, might be the wrong place, so I'll start a new thread OTF - Problems / Solutions?
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jj
Member
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# Posted: 27 Jun 2013 01:24
Reply
As my hubby so eloquently said.. Where have we heard this before?
OTF has a summer slump, it always has.
How to grow/evolve? Well I don't know but all the bickering and arguing isn't going to help.
One thought (and yes it has come up before) is upgrade the fortums and make it more of a focus. If no ones in the chat, but discussion is happening in the forums maybe more peeps will participate.
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tanneffel
Moderator
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# Posted: 27 Jun 2013 02:57
Reply
Upgrade? We just have to simply USE them, no?
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jj
Member
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# Posted: 28 Jun 2013 02:23
Reply
Well yes, but they're sort of clunky...
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tanneffel
Moderator
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# Posted: 28 Jun 2013 03:24
Reply
Explain 'clunky'. What would be an improvement?
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trinity
Member
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# Posted: 5 Jul 2013 00:27
Reply
I think "Clunky" means that they're.....not an appealing format. The lettering is small, and very few things are visually designed like them. It makes them physically more challenging to read. As opposed to....FB chat, for example. It's small font, but its also more compact, and its easier to read the back and fourth exchange.
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david1
Member
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# Posted: 5 Jul 2013 08:22
Reply
I have a solution. In fact ive allready got the code in place to do this, a facebook style wall.... ill add it to V3 as an option....
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