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soka
Member
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# Posted: 26 Jun 2013 14:41
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In the OTF is Dying thread we discussed the problems of OTF, but it went a bit off-topic, agressive and destructive.
So, here is a place to discuss how those problems can be solved. If you want to deny that there are problems of any kind, please don't keep posting that opinion, this is supposed to be a *constructive* thread.
I've had my own thoughts about this topic nearly since I came back some months ago and might have made an own thread soon if Robert hadn't been first, but closeer to this one.
On to the topic ...
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soka
Member
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# Posted: 26 Jun 2013 14:42
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In that other thread I've said (in a lot of sentences) that I believe Promotions and Awards should be picked up again.
Silly as it may sound, they are motivating people - and if they think there's no chance at all, they get demotivated.
So much for that, now for the things I've come up with before Robert's post:
New Members
We need new people, relying on old ones to come back is a bad strategy.
There are people coming in regularly, but in most cases they don't come back - and I can't really blame them.
Lately I've witnessed quite a few times when a new person entered - and was completely ignored. Even though people were actively chatting. Not even one person saying Hello to them.
So, what is the alternative? Pretty obvious, isn't it ... just talking to them, being nice to them, making them feel welcome. Like having a new face matters to us. As it should.
SciFi/Fantasy-chat?
Let's be honest, how much of the daily conversation is about SF lately? Answer: Not much.
New people coming in to talk about their favourite series/movies is usually how it starts.
Now, it never has been the main topic in daily chat since I registered, but ... there used to be be events centered about Science Fiction.
Yes, there is still trivia, but it is not regular enough any more to say There, in just a few days ... or even Every Weekend.
We all joined at some point because we loved SF/FY didn't we?
Let it turn into just a regular chat with some themed rooms, and you lose what makes OTF ... OTF. You lose it's identity, what makes it special.
The above is my opinion (although a few others that I've talked to already agreed with me)
Feel free to discuss these and orther problems in a civil manner, if possible without going at each other's throats.
Oh, and offering/discussions solutions to them would be a good thing too.
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cameronjb756
Member
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# Posted: 26 Jun 2013 17:53
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Hi! 
New Members: This is currently being discussed by the Marketing Team who are now thinking about re-making the 'Welcoming Committee' to greet new people but yes people just talking to New Members would be great.
I have personally noticed it and I admit I was slightly to blame but a lot of people are afk etc so some times they just never notice.
Sci-Fi chat: I did bring this up a few months ago but people didn't seem responsive, but yet I'd love to start having Chats we could even making events and stuff about Sci-Fi and Hydra was trying to do a ST Reboot Trivia but the place wasn't very active at both occasions, I completely agree though, More Sci-Fi! \o/
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david1
Member
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# Posted: 26 Jun 2013 19:13
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Ye.... Must think good thoughts.... Must think good thoughts.....
A: first time greeting for new logins. A message to greet users, to highlight features, and make others aware its their first login, to encourage interaction.
B: daily topic, abuse or replace the alert status with a daily topic, to encourage users to talk about a selected topic.
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david1
Member
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# Posted: 26 Jun 2013 19:17
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C: improve chat code to alert users to new messages within the chatroom. Ajax can achieve this with some very simple code.
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tanneffel
Moderator
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# Posted: 26 Jun 2013 19:41
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David, Ohm and I have been talking about alerts too. Maybe you should send him an email with your ideas and start the conversation between you two?
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trekkey
Member
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# Posted: 26 Jun 2013 19:44 · Edited by: trekkey
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I had a few ideas I've mentioned in other places but I guess I'll consolidate them here:
Establish OTF pages on other social media sites
Apparently OTF is so old that it doesn't appear prominently in search engines. The site is probably due for an overhaul, but that will take a tremendous amount of work on the part of the dev team and won't happen any time soon. In the meantime, it might help to make an OTF facebook page - one oriented more towards introducing the site than simply connecting existing members together - and groups on whatever other social media sites come to mind. That might make OTF easier to stumble across.
Update the dossiers
Dossiers need new default fields to keep up with the times. Myspace? Really? Add new ones like Facebook, Skype, Twitter, maybe even Tumblr. I'd imagine there are many gamers here too, so a Steam one wouldn't hurt either. If new users who are gamers connect and start playing with other users I can pretty much guarantee it'll keep them invested in the community. It's a great way to bond.
Add a notification system to chat
I brought this one up a while ago and apparently it's being looked into. Basically, chat should have a system where if you're in another tab and a new message is posted to chat, a little (1) notification will show up in the OTF chat, similar to facebook. This will keep people from checking chat twenty minutes after someone made the last post. It'll grab their attention and keep conversations going.
Update the events section
This was posted in the OTF is dying thread. Instead of having "Today's events" and "Tomorrow's Events" we should simply scrap "Tomorrow's Events" and replace it with "Next Scheduled Event". That way if old users drop in and see the site is dead at the time, they might keep the next event in mind and come back then - same for new users.
Star Trek reboot themed room
I don't know how the community feels about the Abrams reboot in general and this may be redundant considering we already have a Trek room, but it might be worth it to consider making a room themed around "NuTrek". It'd make us look a little more up to date for new users and it'd give us an excuse to make a sleek, shiny lens flarey new interface (not that the other ones don't already look great).
Change the resolution of the homepage
I don't know a lot about web development but I'd imagine the homepage is set up in some kind of native resolution? If so, I think it's time to go widescreen with it. On most of my computers the site is kind of scrunched up on the left half of the screen. It's hardly a big problem but I think it detracts from the homepage aesthetically (which otherwise still looks awesome) and makes the site look a little dated. In addition it'd give the dev team more space to work with if they want to add stuff to the home page, which brings me to my next suggestion...
Add some kind of update blog into the home page
This one I'm iffy about but it could be useful. Basically I think we should just have some kind of blog on the homepage (maybe right under the section listing the rooms) that would be used for departmental updates, events and any other stuff the EC decides to put on it. I think it'd help new users to very quickly see what we're up to here and would make OTF look more like an active community. Plus it would simplify things so people wouldn't have to navigate to the update page.
I had a few more ideas but I can't remember all of them at the moment. 
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david1
Member
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# Posted: 26 Jun 2013 20:19
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Quoting: trekkey Establish OTF pages on other social media sites
Been done allready, however fragmented managment of the social mediums caused it to become stagnant.
Quoting: trekkey Update the dossiers
Tried before, and apparently in hand.... watch the space on this one.
Quoting: trekkey Add a notification system to chat
Yeop exactly what i said, its ajax which does it, and the code to implement it is no more then 5 lines of code believe it or not. its extremly simple to integrate.
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soka
Member
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# Posted: 26 Jun 2013 20:45
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Quoting: trekkey Dossiers need new default fields to keep up with the times. Myspace? Really? Add new ones like Facebook, Skype, Twitter, maybe even Tumblr. I'd imagine there are many gamers here too, so a Steam one wouldn't hurt either.
I've had that thought just earlier today, but I would vote against new default fields because who knows what might launch in half a year and would eventually require another tweak to be added.
My thought was first adding a new line with a text-box to enter what it is and a second to enter your name in it.
Then I thought that this could be taken further and have them all be like that - existing Dossiers staying like they are but when you go to edit then msn aim and such will be their own text-boxes and can be changed to whatever you actually want to offer.
That would make it possible to delete aim from the box and type in Skype or something instead.
I'm no coder and don't know how complicated that would be to do, but I suspect it isn't too hard - there already is one box in a line that's being saved, so having the service being another data-item .. well, like I said I'm no coder.
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mohdanni
Member
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# Posted: 26 Jun 2013 20:50
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In addition I would say that an ongoing forum-based trivia would be fun. make it run weekly, bi-weekly, or monthly. It can also be a draw if implemnted correctly
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trekkey
Member
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# Posted: 27 Jun 2013 02:39
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Quoting: soka My thought was first adding a new line with a text-box to enter what it is and a second to enter your name in it. Then I thought that this could be taken further and have them all be like that - existing Dossiers staying like they are but when you go to edit then msn aim and such will be their own text-boxes and can be changed to whatever you actually want to offer. That would make it possible to delete aim from the box and type in Skype or something instead.
This is probably the best way to go, actually. I think the way the fields are set up now they're tailored to link directly to whatever screen name/ICQ number is entered which probably wouldn't be possible if we had custom fields, but I don't think that functionality is essential or anything.
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david1
Member
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# Posted: 27 Jun 2013 04:20
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The fields need storing in a array inside a blob field. Then the end user can have as many mixed, custom fields as rthey can dream up.
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soka
Member
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# Posted: 27 Jun 2013 13:24 · Edited by: soka
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I think that linking of things isn't true for all of the fields (only icq and myspace come to mind) but yes I agree, it isn't really important.
This updating Contact data in Dossiers really should be done, and obviously is being worked on already, so I think we can move away from it.
I just noticed another part of Trekkey's post (I must have stopped really reading after the Dossier thing because I was already thinking up my reply)
Quoting: trekkey This one I'm iffy about but it could be useful. Basically I think we should just have some kind of blog on the homepage (maybe right under the section listing the rooms) that would be used for departmental updates, events and any other stuff the EC decides to put on it.
I'm not so sure about that suggestion, because if there is a blog or similar, it needs to be maintained too.
Having no blog/news/whatever is better / makes a better impression than having a way outdated one, like if the last update was a year old or something.
My experience with such things is that it's being maintained the first half year or such and then slows down until it's forgotten.
If such a thing is being added we need to make sure that doesn't happen somehow.
However, I think new (and old) people can forgive lack of certain features, if the content is what they expect.
So, I think we really should concentrate more on what sets us apart from other places than on this and that detail.
People come here expecting to find a ST/SW/whatever chat, and if there is no talk *and* no events to support that theory, they might as well go and find a regular chat or go back to facebook or whatever.
While I am aware that it seems silly to re-activate old departments/teams that used to do such events/competitions considering that it isn't the bustling place any more that it used to be, it's my belief that that is the only way to save OTF.
It's not like there is a real lack of new people, there is someone new peeking in every 2 days or such - it's just that they don't really stick around.
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soka
Member
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# Posted: 27 Jun 2013 13:54 · Edited by: soka
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An addition to the second part of my last post:
I still am doubtful about that Blog-thing, but here maybe an alternative:
Would making the first 5 or such update-board titles appear there be possible?
More or less like that RSS-feed, but not linked to the separate updates?
That way there wouldn't be need for extra maintenance, but there would be some kind of 1-or 2-liner news appearing.
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trekkey
Member
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# Posted: 27 Jun 2013 14:48
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Quoting: soka I'm not so sure about that suggestion, because if there is a blog or similar, it needs to be maintained too. Having no blog/news/whatever is better / makes a better impression than having a way outdated one, like if the last update was a year old or something. My experience with such things is that it's being maintained the first half year or such and then slows down until it's forgotten.
Well, the idea was that it would serve to simply replace/relocate the Departmental Updates Board (and add whatever other content people find relevant). Whichever members post to the board now would simply post to the blog instead, so I'm guessing there would be at least one new post made every month.
Quoting: soka However, I think new (and old) people can forgive lack of certain features, if the content is what they expect.
No, I agree. The suggestions I'm bringing up are not high priorities or anything. I just think they are things that could help modernize the site a bit that could be done relatively quickly and without a lot of hassle.
Quoting: soka While I am aware that it seems silly to re-activate old departments/teams that used to do such events/competitions considering that it isn't the bustling place any more that it used to be, it's my belief that that is the only way to save OTF.
Yeah, I think it's a good idea to provide content, we just need people who will be able to manage those positions.
Trivia seems to be up and running, what else needs to be restarted? Simming, perhaps?
Gaming would be a good thing to get going as well. I mentioned it'd be good to add Steam to the dossiers - OTF should probably also establish an official Steam group that would basically act as a Gaming hub. From there we could organize events and get members of the community playing together once we get a feel for what people are generally into. The gaming page should probably be revamped as well. I don't think BNT is even online any more.
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quincyw
Member
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# Posted: 27 Jun 2013 21:53
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Quoting: soka In that other thread I've said (in a lot of sentences) that I believe Promotions and Awards should be picked up again.Silly as it may sound, they are motivating people - and if they think there's no chance at all, they get demotivated.
The big issue isn't picking it up again, the EC have shown they're very willing to hand them out to those that deserve it.
The proper issue is that a lot of people who want to contribute have no avenue or means to contribute. Someone with a great idea steps forward and nothing happens.
Until 10F has a means to do that, we're stuck.
Well... Why not let's simply ask "who has a project they want to make/create/contribute to at 10F"? If such project exists, fine.
If not, have a point of contact within EC (doesn't necessarily have to be job/department relevant). Start a true and proper proposal, do some work. Come back for review. If good feedback, carry on.
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soka
Member
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# Posted: 27 Jun 2013 22:31 · Edited by: soka
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Which is more or less what we've been discussing in this thread.
And that paragraph is just a very short summary of what I said, if you want to read up the whole thing, here you go.
"Yes, of course they need to be earned. And they should not be given easily - depending on the level of it of course." That is how I start the topic of Promotions in that thread.
I did not want to copy-paste the whole thing here because it'd distract from the real topic.
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quincyw
Member
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# Posted: 28 Jun 2013 08:58
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Yes, but as I understand it, unless I've missed something, 10F as a whole doesn't have any mechanisms for it.
Example: If I said I want to create a project based around forum based Simming at 10F, how do I go about it? Who should be the one to review my progress? How do I even submit such a proposal?
That's what I mean. If we start having a means where people can step forward, how do we next proceed?
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soka
Member
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# Posted: 28 Jun 2013 10:49
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Right now that would be mailing the EC at their mailing-list as I understand it.
The problem is with them being so busy with non-OTF things is that it'll take a while for them to discuss it - and you think it's been ignored/forgotten.
That's why I hope that eventually there will be Departments again, Forum-Simming would be Entertainment.
Because, if every single real decision of this place has to be made by those 5 busy people then of course they'll take a while and people will get discouraged because they think they'll be ignored.
And no, I'm not critisizing (or however it's spelled) the EC here - I just never liked that getting rid of departments theory, and said so even before it was implemented.
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david1
Member
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# Posted: 28 Jun 2013 15:24
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Quoting: quincyw Example: If I said I want to create a project based around forum based Simming at 10F, how do I go about it? Who should be the one to review my progress? How do I even submit such a proposal?
Going off old rules.....
You'd do one of the following:
You'd set up a proposal, and send it off to the department manager, who would forward and discuss the idea with the exe (EC). Who would in turn respond back with a ye, or ney on the project.
However, there was and has been a second way to do this also, this is the 'prove it and wait for the cease and di-sist order.' Under this circumstance, as long as your project isnt PD breaking, and is simple to implement, doesn't conflict with another project in tow, you could go about things this way.
The exe (EC) like to see passion and drive, and i think in these inactive days the later seems to be the way projects are getting off the ground these days believe it or not.
So if you wanted to set up forums simming at otf, go ahead, make a thread, set some rules, and get it active. Prove that you can get it to work, then the exe (EC) will make it an official project, and support you in your own time.
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david1
Member
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# Posted: 28 Jun 2013 18:20
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heres how you do it.......
Ticket Managment System
I quickly wipped this together as a replacement to the suggestion box, a more constructive way to manage tickets. A ticket can be anything from an idea/suggestion to a problem/bug, whatever the user has issues with.
Its also self policing, since it has "report" comment option to allow users to highlight issues directly to ISA where breach of PD's are detected.
Have a play, i made some dummy accounts to use, click on the login page and the usernames/passwords are there.
[P.S.]
To stop google spiders trawling it ive put a hta there, use the following to log in.
username: otf
pass: outpost10f
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quincyw
Member
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# Posted: 29 Jun 2013 13:24
Reply
Quoting: soka The problem is with them being so busy with non-OTF things is that it'll take a while for them to discuss it - and you think it's been ignored/forgotten.
My theory kind of skips that. Forgive me if it's not entirely clear.
There doesn't need to necessarily be someone in charge. Whoever wants a project goes and does it. Someone is merely appointed to observe, critique, whatever. If that person does enough work and is self sustaining, then it becomes part of 10F.
Think community garden. You find a bare spot, plant and tend your own seedling, nurture it, make it grow.
Quoting: david1 So if you wanted to set up forums simming at otf, go ahead, make a thread, set some rules, and get it active. Prove that you can get it to work, then the exe (EC) will make it an official project, and support you in your own time.
Just so. My question is, do we have a mechanism in place for this?
Everyone here proves they want to contribute, so we let them. We just need someone to say okay, do so.
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soka
Member
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# Posted: 29 Jun 2013 19:45
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Yes I think there are quite a few people who would do something if they just were given the chance.
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tanneffel
Moderator
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# Posted: 29 Jun 2013 22:54
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If you want to start a forum simm, Quincy, please do! There is still a "Simming" section to the forums.
And if anyone wants to plan an event in chat (think Keith's "Pub Trivia" nights, or Katrina and Al's "PB+J and Wine" party), you are welcome to post to the updates board and on the facebook group to promote your event. Once I see a posting, I can put it in our calendar too.
I suppose the only problem is when a project or event doesn't fit into the permissions available to common members. That's when you ask and see what's possible.
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david1
Member
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# Posted: 30 Jun 2013 00:49
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The tools are there, i guess all ppl need is a simple step by step guide on how to do a project....
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tanneffel
Moderator
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# Posted: 30 Jun 2013 03:35
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Pish posh.
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david1
Member
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# Posted: 30 Jun 2013 04:13
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Ill make a crazy flowchart xD
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demonvamp
Member
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# Posted: 30 Jun 2013 15:29
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A newsletter. I'm not talking Blue report, I'm talking once a week via e-mail to all registered people reminding them that OTF lives and here are some events for the week.
After all, that pesky checkbox is still clicked in my account, just waiting to be used....
*gallops away*
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david1
Member
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# Posted: 30 Jun 2013 16:24
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This has been brought up before. I there was a legitimate reason for not utalizing email accounts.... Hal is the one to ask.
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soka
Member
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# Posted: 30 Jun 2013 21:43 · Edited by: soka
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If they checked that checkbox they should be ok with receiving emails.
I think though that once a week is too often, to remind them of OTF every quarter year should be enough.
Once a week would just result in those who aren't regulars any more to just switch it off, with 4 a year the risk is lower than with 52.
Those who are regulars don't need to be reminded of its existence, for those the update board would do.
Maybe more of a reflection of what has happened in the last 3 months and big changes that happened or even are in the planning instead of details of events that may or may not happen in the short term.
Also, not all events are planned a whole week in advance.
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