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polson
Member
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# Posted: 8 Oct 2007 09:04
I LOVED the chattop. I thought it was great.
All I'm saying though here, is I don't think it's really all that fair to say "we're celebrating TNG and to make it more fun we're taking away your favorite avatars." I certainly appreciate the hard work that went into the weekend and the new avatars and the chattop and events and all that, and simply because I want to chat with my usual avatar doesn't mean I don't.
And I could care less if everyone agrees with me, I simply want to be able to state my viewpoint on it without being told I'm making a big deal out of nothing. I'm perfectly open to being told WHY it's a good idea to restrict the avys for the celebration. Nobody's said why it's a good idea yet. I've said why it's a good idea not to in the email discussion.
It's one thing to say "Hey, why are we doing this? I don't get it, I don't think it's a good idea because..."
It's another thing to say "You people suck, I hate you and I'm never chatting here again because you took away my avatars!!"
Same as there's a difference between, "Well, we thought about your concern but we decided to go ahead with this plan anyway because..." or "hey we didn't think of that, we'll consider that next time...."
And, "What's your problem? Just deal with it. You're so immature."
My FIRST comment in this post was actually made in good fun. I assumed (as there's been a lot of assumptions made in this, it's my turn to confess my assumptions) most people involved in this discussion would 1. know that I have a strange strange obsession with my Ezri avatar and have for ten years 2. Know that my Ezri is hardwired so I can chat anywhere with it so it doesn't really matter to me PERSONALLY what avatars are in the list, 3. Experienced my sense of humor to some degree or another. or 4. Be involved in the email discussion and therefore know my original thoughts on it. So, if anyone who read that and didn't fall into one of those categories and therefore thought I was really angry about it, know this: I'm not angry about the avatars.
I'm angry about the "what's your problem?" reaction to people not being happy about the avatars.
My problem is I don't like getting jumped on for stating my viewpoint, especially when I've taken the time and effort and trouble to actually be diplomatic about it instead of my usual super blunt self. I'll fight back everytime when that happens.
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a_searcher
Member
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# Posted: 8 Oct 2007 09:17 · Edited by: a_searcher
It's interesting the assumptions that have been made about me from my posts here. I haven't made any assumptions in this thread OTHER than feeling that perhaps there was a specific address. I also accepted the fact that I could be incorrect about making that assumption as I don't really KNOW you and could have misinterpreted the statement.
(BTW...I had a few third parties not even associated with this site look at the string to see how they would interpret the way things were said to see if I was off-base. They indicated, "No...that's how I would have read it too." Not exactly a fully significant, scientific double blind study, but it's a data point.)
Actually, if the following had been the initial response to my question...
"Can't you just use the TNG ones for a few days? Geez."
it would simply have resulted in a question of whether someone was offended by my first statement and a request for more information of WHY I was being asked to do so.
Instead, what I got was 1 person agreeing and 1 person telling us we were acting like 'whiny 5 year olds."
(that was before things really took off...mostly to tell anyone that disagreed that they were 'wrong' to feel what they were feeling.)
Just to let you know, I DO have a life off of this site. I have seldom come to it to be truthful. I got an email asking me to come back and I decided to do it as my previous interactions have been interesting and I thought it would be nice to continue.
You asked me...
Have you ever thought about how the wording of your post might make someone feel who was involved in staging this celebration?
Actually, I didn't even KNOW WHY the avatars had been limited. There was nothing telling me when I returned to the site after an absence that this 'limiting of avatars" was even a PART of a celebration event. I asked someone in the chat what it was about and was told "it's part of the 20th year celebration for TNG. it'll only last a few days." That's when I decided to ask and posted. I honestly didn't believe that anyone would be so touchy about the way I phrased it. It was just a question and the geez was a mild expression of the annoyance I was feeling. It's not like I cussed a blue streak or questioned the intelligence or other attributes of ANYONE on the site.
So the answer is 'no.' I didn't know how much time and effort when into the planning and execution of these celebration activities or that people would be upset if anything they construed as negative or nitpicking was posted about how those activities were being seen by others not a part of said planning and execution.
I will let you know that I have a LOT of experience in organizational excellence. This includes developing systems to obtain customer feedback. One of the things that people don't seem to get is that ANY customer feedback is better than none (even what a company would classify as negative or nitpicking.) 1- It shows that people are paying attention, 2 - It can show potential holes in a product offering or marketing of the product, 3 - it is likely that if one person is saying something, there may be others that are thinking the same thing. Instead, companies tend to take the good feedback and ignore everything else. That certainly seems to be the approach here.
I noticed that you are doing an academic paper about this site (from another string.) You may wish to develop a survey tool to assure that your bias is not showing in how you collect and analyze your data. From the way you have responded to me in this situation, I would see that as a potential concern. Having obtained a B.S. in a scientific field and an M.B.A (which included a full thesis deliverable) in addition to working in scientific research laboratories, I have significant experience in developing protocols to examine and analyze empirical data. One of the first things that one needs to do is throw out pre-conceived notions. A hypothesis is just that, what one THINKS they might find, but then one needs to pull in the data and analyze it to see if the hypothesis holds water. Many times, the facts may point in a slightly or completely different direction. It is the person that says, "I don't care what this is showing me...my hypothesis is right...I just have to figure out a way to get the data to show that to me" that perverts the whole concept of discovery.
Just my two cents worth. I have sent a message to the 'contact us' to find out how to end my association with this group. I came here solely to find occasional conversation and to have a little fun. It doesn't appear that that is possible. I could be wrong, but at this point, it doesn't look like it to me.
*Does not slam the door in anyone's face.* as message is posted
(P.S. EDIT POST - In response to the message above. It's not the avatars situation that has me willing to leave, it's the way that the whole issue has been addressed. Frankly, the Avatars Issue is just the vehicle by which the true nature of things has been revealed. The Avatars are not what is important (even to me...I just didn't see the correlation between limiting the avatars and celebrating a 20th anniversary... I still don't. Hence, it's not the avatars themselves that are causing me to decide to leave. Just want that to be crystal clear.)
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bria
Member
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# Posted: 8 Oct 2007 10:33
Polson, I hope you know that I wasn't aiming that at you.  If you didn't know that, I'm saying it now, just so it's clear. I think that by now I can usually tell when you're being serious!
As for the other stuff, I'm done arguing now, honest. All I was trying to do was bring a bit of perspective into the discussion. To stop people getting upset the way I've seen happen in the past. Didn't work, fair enough, I'll add it to my list of experiences.
As for
Quoting: a_searcher You may wish to develop a survey tool to assure that your bias is not showing in how you collect and analyze your data. From the way you have responded to me in this situation, I would see that as a potential concern.
thanks. It's a bit different since I'm studying anthropology, which no matter what they pretend, isn't quite a science the same as, say, physics. But I shan't bore you with details. 
However, I do intend to keep an open mind. Thanks for offering your input.
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a_searcher
Member
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# Posted: 8 Oct 2007 10:48
I actually have studied anthropology (as an elective) and have read numerous articles (many academic) on anthropological research (cultural differences and societal norms to name two) so I'm not unaware of the differences between 'hard' sciences and 'soft' sciences. However, even when approaching the 'soft' science to determine the explanation of a situation, there are still statistical processes used to analyze the data and determine whether it is statistically likely or unlikely that the explanation of the phenomena (e.g. was the hypothesis proved or disproved.) is correct. All part of the design of the study and the choice of dependent and independent variables and the measurement tool thereof. It's part of the reason that customer feedback data can be analyzed and utilized to incorporate continuous improvement in the system.
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bria
Member
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# Posted: 8 Oct 2007 11:09
Oh, right. Well done. I've only done anthro for two years, but even so I'm familiar with both Malinowski's methods and the changes in approach since his time. Of course it's important to avoid the pitfalls of personal judgement; the consequences of it are obvious in books like "The Broken Fountain". It's important to remain open-minded and non-judgemental. Which I am, incidentally, and which is mirrored in the fact that grade-wise at least I'm one of the best in the year, but I don't expect you to take my word for that. But thanks for offering your input. I shall bear it in mind.
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polson
Member
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# Posted: 8 Oct 2007 11:23
Bria, oh, I'm not worried about ya! *l* We share a brain, remember? Your post just made me realize that not everyone would know where I was coming from on my post so I thought I would clarify. No worries.
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sg8472
Member
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# Posted: 8 Oct 2007 11:31
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha.... I only came here to read Andrew's response (because he's narcissistic enough to advertise it  ), and have to say y'all are very entertaining.
Next I'm off to see Svenja's thesis idea, and recommend she consider examining the need to create contention over insignificant things.
While we're at it, I preferred when the ranks were displayed all yellow-y and such .
People, let my words touch you in funny places as yours have done to me, a picture speaks a thousand words, so if you really have a problem can we just post pretty pictures?
<3
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a_searcher
Member
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# Posted: 8 Oct 2007 12:07
You know? It sounds like I'm beating my head against a brick wall here. I've stated, The AVATARS are not the root cause of the problem. It's the attitude about the way that the issue is being handled. The Avatars in the long run are insignificant. The attitude about how 'comments and dissension' is handled is not.
Let's look at the concept of 'insignificance.' Hotels for years kept hearing customer feedback about the comfort of the beds. They generally blew that comment off. After all, they'd decorated the rooms to feel homey, purchased good quality bedding, and had met multiple needs of their customers. What did these people want? The had a bed for the night. They'd served their requirements. It was 'insignificant' that a few people complained about the bedding.
Then one day, someone got the notion to really try and see the issue from the complainant's standpoint. They really listened to what was being said and they decided to do a planned experiment in one of their locations to see what the results were. They were astounded. Overnight, the change of bedding raised their customer satisfaction results and the answer to the questions of whether the customer would stay there again and whether they would recommend the place to a friend or colleague was an overwhelming 'yes.'
But hey...bedding was an insignificant issue. It simply wasn't important.
Now...I'm NOT saying the avatars are in that category. What I am saying is that the response to the complaint was "stop being whiney"..."it's not that big of a deal"..."people worked hard on this, can't you just go along?"...and other such statements. No one even responded to the ideas of how the concept might have been deployed more successfully. No one responded to the concept that if a customer is forced to follow something, that does NOT mean they get it , are happy with it, or wouldn't at least like to have their issue 'heard.' THAT'S what the issue is. NOT the Avatars. The RESPONSE to the situation.
I grant you. Avatars in the big scheme of things are NOT that important (although since people tend to brand themselves using them, taking away their 'brand' is somewhat like saying...your desires are NOT important. That can be an issue since you're dealing with emotions of self.) Again though, one needs to look at the root cause of the issues expressed and THAT is important.
Just remember...when flying at 30,000 feet, one doesn't always see the details and unfortunately, the devil is sometimes IN those details.
It's obvious to me that I've been written off as some sort of a crackpot (if I'm wrong...please educate me otherwise...from the responses thus far it truly seems that way to me.) It's should be obvious that I'm still at least somewhat engaged. Up to you what your response to all of this is.
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bria
Member
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# Posted: 8 Oct 2007 12:08
Polson, oh, good. Glad we're okay on that, then! =D
Shane, actually, you raise a valid point... =D And I like the pretty pictures idea. Can we start with ones of Han?
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daecrist
Member
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# Posted: 8 Oct 2007 12:17
Okay then. This has gone on long enough. It's the anniversary for The Next Generation so some of the avatars have been taken away for the weekend. You're welcome to e-mail the Star Trek SC or DSC if you have a problem, but airing your dirty laundry on the forums is hardly the most productive way to be heard.
Most people are being decent and civil in this thread. At least one person seems to be trying to write a thesis in successful trolling. Remember folks, don't feed the trolls.
a_searcher, I'm sorry that you're so offput by the lack of Star Trek avatars. We offer a wide range of chat rooms, including two other Star Trek rooms with a variety of ST avatars that you can choose from if the lack of Captain Kirk in the main room is leaving a black hole in your heart where your tortured soul used to reside.
If anyone is really annoyed by the lack of TNG avatars then you're free to use one of the other rooms or to wait a few days until the avatars come back. If this thread continues to devolve then it'll be locked/deleted/whatever needs done.
Thanks!
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iain
Moderator
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# Posted: 8 Oct 2007 12:20
Is it only me who's noticed that the people who've made the comments which have caused upset aren't actually in relevant/any leadership positions? Isn't this significant?
The only "authoritative" comments on this can come from Chun (aka Kayana) or Lee (aka Dmitri / Skevington). Lee has in fact posted on this thread. He said, "They'll be back in a few days so i wouldn't worry yourself too much...". Nothing terribly inflamatory there.
By the way, the avatars are in fact back to normal now - as of yesterday. 
(And, yes, I do understand the points made in favour of leaving the avatars as normal. It can be argued both ways. Just... go to the right people, please. And, don't regard every member who responds as having an "authoritative" opinion which in any way reflects OTF policy.)
~Iain
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