Real-time chat (1)

# Posted: 12 Jun 2010 15:54
Reply

Comments here.

# Posted: 12 Jun 2010 16:41
Reply

Quoting: lzrman

"Time since last Transmit/Receive" ? Is it just now last time transmit?

It is more like "last time the browser was alive". It should be under 30 seconds at all times, if the person has the window open.

Quoting: lzrman

What about chat archives? loading up posts up to 360 posts ago?!

On my "to-do" list. When you're logged in, you get up to 300 posts in the scroll history. But only 30 load when you first log in. On my "to do" list is adding a button to "see more" (grab the last 300 posts), maybe at the bottom of the chat when you first log in.

goose
Member

# Posted: 12 Jun 2010 17:44
Reply

Hey Iain, i know we already spoke about this.. And since you asked so nicely.. a downside would be that if you are away for a little while you wouldnt know where you left off unless you scrolled to find where you left off, could get bothersome for people?

iain
Moderator

# Posted: 12 Jun 2010 18:03
Reply

Quoting: lzrman

What about the missing Alert Status?!

Also on my to-do list!

Quoting: lzrman

Spycam when you first login, doesn't load all the posts just whats new after login :

It is meant to load 30 recent posts, like in chat... does it not work for you? Which browser are you using?

Quoting: goose

a downside would be that if you are away for a little while you wouldnt know where you left off unless you scrolled to find where you left off, could get bothersome for people?

I'll have a think. Thanks!

Quoting: lazynoob

I totally approve of the new Real Time Chat,with little worry of timeing out

Thanks!

skaara
Member

# Posted: 12 Jun 2010 19:21
Reply

I only saw the old chat version once, but I seem to like it more.

The realtime chat is a bit annoying, trying to keep up with it, if it keeps scrolling.

Maybe have both options available, and let the user choose which one they want to use?

iain
Moderator

# Posted: 12 Jun 2010 19:30
Reply

Quoting: osiris

Why? what's the point. what did you fix with this change. and who asked for it?

The chatrooms are much less lively now than they were a few years ago. I think that this is in large part due to the user interface: people who would be interested either can't figure it out, or who do figure it out find it too cumbersome. (I, for one, don't have the patience to use the OTF interface - it is very annoying to keep up with pressing "Receive" all the time.)

Quoting: osiris

Otherwise how would anyone be expected to keep up in a room with more than 4 or 5 active chatters. when you can only have 5 or 6 messages max on screen and they keep scrolling?

One idea I had was that receiving new posts should be put on pause when you scroll through old messages. Would this help with reading the old posts?

Another idea I had was that, if you clicked a post, maybe it could permanently collapse (to just name / post). This would:

(1) Allow you to mark posts as viewed. So if you went away from the computer for a while, you could easily see where you finished reading.
(2) Save space, for reading history.

Thoughts? Would one or both of these help you, Osiris, and other people too?

Quoting: skaara

The realtime chat is a bit annoying, trying to keep up with it, if it keeps scrolling.

Same question as to Osiris above

Quoting: skaara

Maybe have both options available, and let the user choose which one they want to use?

I intend to run the test for a little while (maybe a few weeks) so that people can get used to it, and then do a more formal poll. Depending on the results, we'll either stick with the real-time chat (if most prefer it); roll back to the old chat (if most prefer that); or add some sort of option (if loads of people love and loads of people hate both options).

7of24
Member

# Posted: 12 Jun 2010 19:36
Reply

well thats going to suck for me because I dont exactly have a top of the line comp, have to use a second hand comp. but I can see what I can do

iain
Moderator

# Posted: 12 Jun 2010 19:41
Reply

Quoting: 7of24

well thats going to suck for me because I dont exactly have a top of the line comp, have to use a second hand comp. but I can see what I can do

Here are two browsers that will work on Windows 98. If you are able to install one or the other, then you will be able to keep chatting.

Internet Explorer 6: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?fa milyid=1e1550cb-5e5d-48f5-b02b-20b602228de6&displa ylang=en

Firefox 2: http://www.oldapps.com/firefox.php?old_firefox=7

osiris
Member

# Posted: 12 Jun 2010 19:43
Reply

I'll admit I can see the utility of it, But I stand by my statement that if this is going to work, you're going to have to make the chat itself look a whole lot more IRC like. You've already got the backend done. Another thing that might make it a little bit more tolerable, if you won't let people choose between the two is make it so you can pause the chat on your end.

Frankly when I first jumped into the spycam today, and started scrolling down, I thought my mouse was kicking the bucket. every time I'd scroll down a few lines it'd go back up a little bit.

deboe
Member

# Posted: 12 Jun 2010 19:46
Reply

Quoting: iain

Would collapsing posts on-click help you too?

just a suggestion, i don't spend that much time here now-a-days any way.

david1
Member

# Posted: 12 Jun 2010 20:48
Reply

I think the potential of real time chat is simple integration with a mobile phone re: so you can chat better from your phone.

Maybe look into a "mobile/lite" mode? -_- i.e. just handle and msg. would nicely integrate into another project *coughs*

david1
Member

# Posted: 12 Jun 2010 21:48 · Edited by: david1
Reply

On another note, i think the auto update works, however due to the size of the users div (image, handle etc, and then the message) it only take 3/4/5 mesages for a message to get shoved off the screen.

And another thought, Trivia, with 10-15-20 people all rapidly posting at once......

Quoting: iain

One idea I had was that receiving new posts should be put on pause when you scroll through old messages. Would this help with reading the old posts?

Another idea I had was that, if you clicked a post, maybe it could permanently collapse (to just name / post). This would:

(1) Allow you to mark posts as viewed. So if you went away from the computer for a while, you could easily see where you finished reading.
(2) Save space, for reading history.

Thoughts? Would one or both of these help you, Osiris, and other people too?

.. and the problem with "pausing posts" is if its a busy room with trivia, you'll get a "burst of posts" and then youll end up having to freeze everything again to scroll down a read.

Personally i think this is an overdue system.
However..

Quoting: osiris

Name - Text

... would work the best with this format, as youd be able to view significantly more posts on a single page... maybe have a toggle option to show/hide user details to allow more posts to be shown on the screen,

i.e.
normal view (full with rank image etc)
or compact view
showing
Rank Username Tagline
Message (on the next line)

Just some thoughts.

Good work though

quincyw
Member

# Posted: 12 Jun 2010 23:51
Reply

Well, now.

Just when I thought I might return, it seems I'm going to keep off the grass.

What makes 10F different? Well, it's our catering for many genres, it's our rank system (no pun intended) and perhaps most importantly in an age of IRC only type chats, Send/Receive was absolutely revolutionary.

Now 10F's lost its most unique feature, what makes us different to the other faceless masses of chats?

But I digress and shall move on to serious comment and suggestion.

First, for Trivia/Simming, make a specific Trivia/Simming room where socialising is "banned". I've attended quite a few events (notably my Battlestar Galactica title, for which I have yet to receive my award!) where only a few active participants were in and the rest were talking about everything else. Yes, it would be good for people to see what Trivia is all about, but if they're going to socialise, throw them back into the main room.

Or have a "Trivia/Simming" chat filter like we have for filtering out certain filters.

In regards to pausing or condensing the chat... Perhaps really do bring back the timeout. I mean, if you haven't done anything for say, ten minutes in chat, then you've already lost the thread of conversation. I'll point to my somewhat sarcastic (but truthful) comments from the other timeout thread.

For condensing the chat, I'll re-point out the chat filter system, where people could post their entries as "General" or "Department" or "Simming/Trivia" and so on. The latter two, I think, should be "immutable" so you couldn't filter those in/out, but possibly could during events.

Ultimately, live chat was probably needed, but took away our greatest quality: Survival of the fittest. Those who couldn't keep up would go. Now, those who find us pretty, would probably still go anyway because we somehow don't keep them here. But that's another story altogether.

I've been a member of 10F coming up to twelve years now. While I accept progress and change... You're changing my lovely Outpost from the one I remember all those years ago. Of course, most of that was the "friendly" (term used rather ironically) chatters who have since left.

At least retitle us "10Fv3.0"...

Back to ultra quiet.

ayanna
Member

# Posted: 13 Jun 2010 00:41
Reply

Right,

So at first i was very against the new changes but now that i've spent a few hours in chat i must say i'm starting to like the new changes.

Sure it's not something that is necesarily needed or wanted by some, but it has brought back a few people and today chat has been the most active i've seen it in a while.

I'm not crazy about the constant flickering especially due to the vision problems i have, and i'm thankful i don't have the seizures anymore or it'd play up on that. However i am getting used to and find it to be rather interesting. I think in time it will grow on people. People just refuse to accept change whether it be good or bad. and i'm one of the hardest people to accept change i'd rather have the old otf back

but i'm learning to adapt!

lzrman
Member

# Posted: 13 Jun 2010 01:40
Reply

Quoting: david1

I think the potential of real time chat is simple integration with a mobile phone re: so you can chat better from your phone.

Maybe look into a "mobile/lite" mode? -_- i.e. just handle and msg. would nicely integrate into another project *coughs*

I was using the Chatroom on my Ipod today from work and the real-time option worked quite nicely so i didn't have to scroll up, recieve, zoom out and scroll back down and over and over again, if we work on the top chattop and fine tune that we got ourself a mobile solution aswell.


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Author	Message
iain Moderator	# Posted: 12 Jun 2010 15:54 Reply Comments here.
lzrman Member	# Posted: 12 Jun 2010 16:35 Reply How does it effect this option: "Time since last Transmit/Receive" ? Is it just now last time transmit? What about chat archives? loading up posts up to 360 posts ago?!
iain Moderator	# Posted: 12 Jun 2010 16:41 Reply Quoting: lzrman "Time since last Transmit/Receive" ? Is it just now last time transmit? It is more like "last time the browser was alive". It should be under 30 seconds at all times, if the person has the window open. Quoting: lzrman What about chat archives? loading up posts up to 360 posts ago?! On my "to-do" list. When you're logged in, you get up to 300 posts in the scroll history. But only 30 load when you first log in. On my "to do" list is adding a button to "see more" (grab the last 300 posts), maybe at the bottom of the chat when you first log in.
lzrman Member	# Posted: 12 Jun 2010 16:53 · Edited by: lzrman Reply What about the missing Alert Status?! Spycam when you first login, doesn't load all the posts just whats new after login :
goose Member	# Posted: 12 Jun 2010 17:44 Reply Hey Iain, i know we already spoke about this.. And since you asked so nicely.. a downside would be that if you are away for a little while you wouldnt know where you left off unless you scrolled to find where you left off, could get bothersome for people?
lazynoob Member	# Posted: 12 Jun 2010 17:44 Reply So, after entering the chat with its current format, and as an Outside smoker I totally approve of the new Real Time Chat,with little worry of timeing out while enjoying my stick of cancer
iain Moderator	# Posted: 12 Jun 2010 18:03 Reply Quoting: lzrman What about the missing Alert Status?! Also on my to-do list! Quoting: lzrman Spycam when you first login, doesn't load all the posts just whats new after login : It is meant to load 30 recent posts, like in chat... does it not work for you? Which browser are you using? Quoting: goose a downside would be that if you are away for a little while you wouldnt know where you left off unless you scrolled to find where you left off, could get bothersome for people? I'll have a think. Thanks! Quoting: lazynoob I totally approve of the new Real Time Chat,with little worry of timeing out Thanks!
osiris Member	# Posted: 12 Jun 2010 19:14 Reply Why? what's the point. what did you fix with this change. and who asked for it? The only thing I think that could redeem this would be Getting rid of the avatars, the rank, the tagline the dossier/homepage/stuff and just having the format be Name - Text Otherwise how would anyone be expected to keep up in a room with more than 4 or 5 active chatters. when you can only have 5 or 6 messages max on screen and they keep scrolling?
skaara Member	# Posted: 12 Jun 2010 19:21 Reply I only saw the old chat version once, but I seem to like it more. The realtime chat is a bit annoying, trying to keep up with it, if it keeps scrolling. Maybe have both options available, and let the user choose which one they want to use?
7of24 Member	# Posted: 12 Jun 2010 19:30 Reply I logged in but Im not seeing any posts on the screen, I still have to "communications" section where you type and press transmit when you want to post, but when I do that I dont even see that pop up or anything. why cant I see or post anything
iain Moderator	# Posted: 12 Jun 2010 19:30 Reply Quoting: osiris Why? what's the point. what did you fix with this change. and who asked for it? The chatrooms are much less lively now than they were a few years ago. I think that this is in large part due to the user interface: people who would be interested either can't figure it out, or who do figure it out find it too cumbersome. (I, for one, don't have the patience to use the OTF interface - it is very annoying to keep up with pressing "Receive" all the time.) Quoting: osiris Otherwise how would anyone be expected to keep up in a room with more than 4 or 5 active chatters. when you can only have 5 or 6 messages max on screen and they keep scrolling? One idea I had was that receiving new posts should be put on pause when you scroll through old messages. Would this help with reading the old posts? Another idea I had was that, if you clicked a post, maybe it could permanently collapse (to just name / post). This would: (1) Allow you to mark posts as viewed. So if you went away from the computer for a while, you could easily see where you finished reading. (2) Save space, for reading history. Thoughts? Would one or both of these help you, Osiris, and other people too? Quoting: skaara The realtime chat is a bit annoying, trying to keep up with it, if it keeps scrolling. Same question as to Osiris above Quoting: skaara Maybe have both options available, and let the user choose which one they want to use? I intend to run the test for a little while (maybe a few weeks) so that people can get used to it, and then do a more formal poll. Depending on the results, we'll either stick with the real-time chat (if most prefer it); roll back to the old chat (if most prefer that); or add some sort of option (if loads of people love and loads of people hate both options).
iain Moderator	# Posted: 12 Jun 2010 19:33 Reply Quoting: 7of24 why cant I see or post anything Sorry about that. According to the logs, you are running Internet Explorer 5 on Windows 98. Is this the case? If so, the problem is that the new system doesn't support a browser this old. Perhaps you could install a new browser? If you are able to upgrade to Internet Explorer 6, this is the earliest version of Internet Explorer which we support - and Internet Explorer is available for Windows 98.
7of24 Member	# Posted: 12 Jun 2010 19:36 Reply well thats going to suck for me because I dont exactly have a top of the line comp, have to use a second hand comp. but I can see what I can do
deboe Member	# Posted: 12 Jun 2010 19:38 Reply to deal with the space on the screen, maybe reduce the size of things and maybe cut down the chat top to half its size by spreading the links horizontally.
iain Moderator	# Posted: 12 Jun 2010 19:41 Reply Quoting: 7of24 well thats going to suck for me because I dont exactly have a top of the line comp, have to use a second hand comp. but I can see what I can do Here are two browsers that will work on Windows 98. If you are able to install one or the other, then you will be able to keep chatting. Internet Explorer 6: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?fa milyid=1e1550cb-5e5d-48f5-b02b-20b602228de6&displa ylang=en Firefox 2: http://www.oldapps.com/firefox.php?old_firefox=7
iain Moderator	# Posted: 12 Jun 2010 19:43 Reply Quoting: deboe to deal with the space on the screen, maybe reduce the size of things and maybe cut down the chat top to half its size by spreading the links horizontally. Would collapsing posts on-click help you too?
osiris Member	# Posted: 12 Jun 2010 19:43 Reply I'll admit I can see the utility of it, But I stand by my statement that if this is going to work, you're going to have to make the chat itself look a whole lot more IRC like. You've already got the backend done. Another thing that might make it a little bit more tolerable, if you won't let people choose between the two is make it so you can pause the chat on your end. Frankly when I first jumped into the spycam today, and started scrolling down, I thought my mouse was kicking the bucket. every time I'd scroll down a few lines it'd go back up a little bit.
iain Moderator	# Posted: 12 Jun 2010 19:46 Reply Quoting: osiris is make it so you can pause the chat on your end nods I understand your point. I think that having an automatic pause when you're scrolling through the history may be just what you're looking for, to solve both problems. I'll see if I can whip something up soon.
deboe Member	# Posted: 12 Jun 2010 19:46 Reply Quoting: iain Would collapsing posts on-click help you too? just a suggestion, i don't spend that much time here now-a-days any way.
7of24 Member	# Posted: 12 Jun 2010 19:56 Reply I check those out Iain, but Im not going to get my hopes up. thanks though. I still liked the old set up that is trying to be phased out, thats one of the reasons I liked OTF to begin with, it was so simple, or at least in my mind it was. been to other sites where the screen is constantly scrolling because people are constantly chatting and its a lil harder to keep up. but i see what I can do. because I like chatting here. good people
david1 Member	# Posted: 12 Jun 2010 20:48 Reply I think the potential of real time chat is simple integration with a mobile phone re: so you can chat better from your phone. Maybe look into a "mobile/lite" mode? -_- i.e. just handle and msg. would nicely integrate into another project coughs
demonslayer Member	# Posted: 12 Jun 2010 21:46 · Edited by: demonslayer Reply I found OTF 12 years ago after trying out 3 real-time/auto refresh sites. The reason i prefered the old OTF is that i didnt have the message i was reading jump further down the screen, or completely off the page in times of large amounts of people. Iain i use Explorer 8 and Spycam doesn't load 30 chats before i came in. Also if i click updates or personnel whilst in there, it opens in main page and i loose everything i was looking at
david1 Member	# Posted: 12 Jun 2010 21:48 · Edited by: david1 Reply On another note, i think the auto update works, however due to the size of the users div (image, handle etc, and then the message) it only take 3/4/5 mesages for a message to get shoved off the screen. And another thought, Trivia, with 10-15-20 people all rapidly posting at once...... Quoting: iain One idea I had was that receiving new posts should be put on pause when you scroll through old messages. Would this help with reading the old posts? Another idea I had was that, if you clicked a post, maybe it could permanently collapse (to just name / post). This would: (1) Allow you to mark posts as viewed. So if you went away from the computer for a while, you could easily see where you finished reading. (2) Save space, for reading history. Thoughts? Would one or both of these help you, Osiris, and other people too? .. and the problem with "pausing posts" is if its a busy room with trivia, you'll get a "burst of posts" and then youll end up having to freeze everything again to scroll down a read. Personally i think this is an overdue system. However.. Quoting: osiris Name - Text ... would work the best with this format, as youd be able to view significantly more posts on a single page... maybe have a toggle option to show/hide user details to allow more posts to be shown on the screen, i.e. normal view (full with rank image etc) or compact view showing Rank Username Tagline Message (on the next line) Just some thoughts. Good work though
david1 Member	# Posted: 12 Jun 2010 23:14 Reply Justa thought... Chenge the last transmit/recieve to just last time trasmited. (as recieved is just redundant now? ) Also potentially add a 12/24 hour watch on this to kick them out after a specified period to stop people leaving browsers open on a media center and stop them "haunting" then chatroom -_-
quincyw Member	# Posted: 12 Jun 2010 23:51 Reply Well, now. Just when I thought I might return, it seems I'm going to keep off the grass. What makes 10F different? Well, it's our catering for many genres, it's our rank system (no pun intended) and perhaps most importantly in an age of IRC only type chats, Send/Receive was absolutely revolutionary. Now 10F's lost its most unique feature, what makes us different to the other faceless masses of chats? But I digress and shall move on to serious comment and suggestion. First, for Trivia/Simming, make a specific Trivia/Simming room where socialising is "banned". I've attended quite a few events (notably my Battlestar Galactica title, for which I have yet to receive my award!) where only a few active participants were in and the rest were talking about everything else. Yes, it would be good for people to see what Trivia is all about, but if they're going to socialise, throw them back into the main room. Or have a "Trivia/Simming" chat filter like we have for filtering out certain filters. In regards to pausing or condensing the chat... Perhaps really do bring back the timeout. I mean, if you haven't done anything for say, ten minutes in chat, then you've already lost the thread of conversation. I'll point to my somewhat sarcastic (but truthful) comments from the other timeout thread. For condensing the chat, I'll re-point out the chat filter system, where people could post their entries as "General" or "Department" or "Simming/Trivia" and so on. The latter two, I think, should be "immutable" so you couldn't filter those in/out, but possibly could during events. Ultimately, live chat was probably needed, but took away our greatest quality: Survival of the fittest. Those who couldn't keep up would go. Now, those who find us pretty, would probably still go anyway because we somehow don't keep them here. But that's another story altogether. I've been a member of 10F coming up to twelve years now. While I accept progress and change... You're changing my lovely Outpost from the one I remember all those years ago. Of course, most of that was the "friendly" (term used rather ironically) chatters who have since left. At least retitle us "10Fv3.0"... Back to ultra quiet.
taurik Member	# Posted: 13 Jun 2010 00:26 Reply I've already voiced my opinion on this issue. But just put my name in the dissenting opinion column. however, Iain, thanks for the time and hard work you've put into the Outpost regardless.
ayanna Member	# Posted: 13 Jun 2010 00:41 Reply Right, So at first i was very against the new changes but now that i've spent a few hours in chat i must say i'm starting to like the new changes. Sure it's not something that is necesarily needed or wanted by some, but it has brought back a few people and today chat has been the most active i've seen it in a while. I'm not crazy about the constant flickering especially due to the vision problems i have, and i'm thankful i don't have the seizures anymore or it'd play up on that. However i am getting used to and find it to be rather interesting. I think in time it will grow on people. People just refuse to accept change whether it be good or bad. and i'm one of the hardest people to accept change i'd rather have the old otf back but i'm learning to adapt!
kaela_donos Member	# Posted: 13 Jun 2010 00:42 · Edited by: kaela_donos Reply I really dislike this, I can't read it fast enough before it updates, it makes me sea sick and i will not be back until this is gone. I stayed because of the people and because of it's forum like quality.
lzrman Member	# Posted: 13 Jun 2010 01:40 Reply Quoting: david1 I think the potential of real time chat is simple integration with a mobile phone re: so you can chat better from your phone. Maybe look into a "mobile/lite" mode? -_- i.e. just handle and msg. would nicely integrate into another project coughs I was using the Chatroom on my Ipod today from work and the real-time option worked quite nicely so i didn't have to scroll up, recieve, zoom out and scroll back down and over and over again, if we work on the top chattop and fine tune that we got ourself a mobile solution aswell.
lzrman Member	# Posted: 13 Jun 2010 01:51 Reply Quoting: david1 Chenge the last transmit/recieve to just last time trasmited. (as recieved is just redundant now? ) Already Suggested Above ! Quoting: david1 Also potentially add a 12/24 hour watch on this to kick them out after a specified period to stop people leaving browsers open on a media center and stop them "haunting" then chatroom -_- I agree on this, as your gonna have users who just wanna bank chat time, and not be there. Quoting: kaela_donos was Kaela Come Back