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darth_balco
Member
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# Posted: 9 Jul 2010 22:50
Reply
If this does make someone sick, I think specifics should be a good idea. Like when does it make them sick and how long does it affect them. And if there are any others as Korny pointed out.
Take all that good info and find a way to fix it at least.
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david1
Member
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# Posted: 10 Jul 2010 09:04
Reply
*above* im thinking if the shutter effect is causing the same symptoms as say "flash photography" then it might require a "warning" for users??? or an alternative.
and right idea.
Say every hour and half hour have a message post in the chatroom saying somthing like ..
"Current In-active Members: Hobbie, AJ, XgermZ" etc.....???
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ajcardall
Member
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# Posted: 10 Jul 2010 10:50
Reply
David,
I think that it is more of a "motion sickness" thing as opposed to flash photography effect sickness.
Saying that though, doesn't even chat medium - including instant messengers - use the same system?
And - now this will make me sound like a real real bastard - do we change it because one person out of hundreds is affected?
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demonvamp
Member
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# Posted: 10 Jul 2010 13:18
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Quoting: ajcardall And - now this will make me sound like a real real bastard - do we change it because one person out of hundreds is affected?
*delurks*
No, you don't, but then again, the needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many.
Is there not a way to have both systems run concurrently? Or to disable this shutter effect/slow it right down with the click of a button? *if you can already do that, ignore me, I haven't seen the new system*
*relurks*
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kaela_donos
Member
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# Posted: 11 Jul 2010 01:59 · Edited by: kaela_donos
Reply
well...
+It is motion sick not flash sick. Not really something more complicated, just sea sickness. The more it refreshers the more it bothers me. (if a few people talk at the same time.)
+Other things don't do the slide thing, aside from a few power points shows, they go either much much faster or just appear. Loading pages doesn't do it because it's the whole screen not just a part of the screen. It is just the effect.
+If one person is having this problem, others are most likely having this problem. ( like ants, there is never just one) Even if they just left and never said anything.
+Fixing this problem doesn't negatively affect others so i think the needs of the one saying doesn't apply.
On a personal note
I have been with the outpost for 9 years now. It's my home. It has been there when I am board, when I was happy, it was here for me on horrible days.
I love scented candles but when I walk into a room with them I get light headed and my lung burn. Now my home is full of them and I can't go inside.
My suggestion was only a method to try to prevent this. Paint a wall before you paint a house. I am sorry for rambling on and not saying it planer, epically if that is preventing you from hearing me now.
It's been 3 weeks, I want to come home but I can't. 
If you change the way the message appear I can come home.
I feel Ignored and I feel very hurt.
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shakeycat
Moderator
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# Posted: 12 Jul 2010 08:01
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I wonder, if it was Korny complaining and not coming to chat, would we care more? Or Ayanna? What if it was AJ who couldn't chat without feeling the need to vomit? Or if changing the effect on the messages would bring back Michiel for good? What if it was you?
If a top consistent chatter or hard worker were the only person having a problem, would the problem be solved because their value is higher to us somehow? Or if it was someone infinitely popular that we all liked so very much?
It's not right to devalue Kaela saying she doesn't chat enough or work hard enough to have herself heard. This should not be a matter of is-Kaela-worth-hearing-or-not. She is one of us. Yes she went a bit ranty and drifted off on an angry tangent. We've all made posts that we regret, or gotten hung up on arguments that weren't actually going anywhere. But now, we're all sitting around eating delicious shrimp gumbo, and she's stuck with a shrimp allergy sobbing into her dinner rolls, and we're like, "What, aren't you hungry? Just eat it anyway. Gosh, what's her problem? Ignore her, the rest of us like the gumbo, she can starve."
As a fellow infrequent chatter, and a more lazy person than she, I wonder if the same would happen to me if the chat effect made me feel seasick? Would you all just tell me to suck it up and live with it?
Even if this is a matter of numbers and not who has the issue, that doesn't make Kaela feel any better. It probably makes her wonder if it is her, if nobody cares because it's only Kaela. Really, would we all eat the gumbo and not care? Let her munch dinner rolls between sobs while we moan in culinary ecstasy, congratulate the host, and request the same dish next time we all come over? Or would the host or a guest kindly step into the kitchen and fry up some eggs for Kaela, slice her a tomato, apologize for not knowing about her allergy?
If possible, we should experiment with different speeds and see if there is one that Kaela can live with. Seemingly none of us have a particular attachment to the current one, except that it exists. Kaela is OKAY with the effects in certain messaging services, perhaps we can try to emulate the motion of those.
Besides, don't we want to make the best dinner ever? So good that the neighbours smell it and come salivate at our windows? Someone just has to get back in the kitchen, try a few different spices, add a scoop of peanut butter, and let Kaela lick the spoon to see how it tastes.
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demonvamp
Member
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# Posted: 12 Jul 2010 11:50
Reply
I agree with everything Shakey just said.
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iain
Moderator
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# Posted: 12 Jul 2010 14:37
Reply
(Sorry for the slow reply - I've been busy with a real-life work conference.)
The reason that I have not tried to change the animation effect is that Kaela asserted that real-time chat made her "sea-sick" before any animations were in place. (See her forums post on page 1, timestamped "13 Jun 2010 00:42". This was approximately 19 hours before the "sliding" effect was implemented.)
Therefore, I recommend that Kaela seek a doctor's advice if she is not able to use the computer without issue. I also note that Kaela has been in chat for under two minutes in the past three weeks. Is this really enough time for any sea-sickness effects to come into play?
A couple of other chatters have mentioned to be personally that, despite being severely affected with vertigo / sea-sickness, they have no problems using the real-time chat system. (Indeed, not one single person in the previous month has reported any medical issue with real-time chat.)
Therefore, coupled with the fact that Kaela has spent under 5 minutes in chat (total) since the real-time system came out, I am not convinced that this is not a nocebo effect. And if it is a nocebo effect, then there is no possible technical solution.
Any counter-arguments? As I am sure everyone knows, my motivation is only to improve the OTF chatting experience for as many people as possible. If I am missing something, then please tell me. Or anyone who agrees with what I have said? There are lots of people lurking, and not commenting, so I am assuming that I am speaking for the majority here.
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ajcardall
Member
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# Posted: 12 Jul 2010 16:11
Reply
Shakey,
I take your point, but at the same time, my point remains valid: if the vast majority are (seemingly) happy, those that aren't have to accept that? I personally disliked the merging of rooms into one, but hey, it's happened, I accept it. Granted it is not making me "sick", but in response to that, I highlight Iain's post.
In an ideal world everyone would be happy and move forward as one, but that isn't the world we live in. No matter what people do, someone somwhere will dislike it: that's life. If, as stated over and over again, a majority of people are in favour, those that don't like it have to - and this will sound harsh - "get over it". If we started making OTF all things to all men, we may as well upload a blank page and let people doodle.
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darth_balco
Member
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# Posted: 12 Jul 2010 19:43
Reply
I think Iain rendered this "situation" moot with his fabulous explanation. Not trying to be sarcastic or anything, but he pretty much answered every question about it. I say let's just drop it and move on because to keep arguing about it after that would be pretty silly since everyone would basically be repeating themselves. *l*
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kaela_donos
Member
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# Posted: 13 Jul 2010 09:53 · Edited by: kaela_donos
Reply
It blinked the first time I went in (and that was okay) I was shocked and I complained like an idiot because it was new and I was still checking it out. The next day I reread my post and decided it was too angry, so I went into the chat and cheeked it out, then that when the sliding effect became a problem. So I edited my first post instead of trying to make a new one. I edit everything, I always do! I went back to edit it again after that, maybe one or two hours latter, and it wouldn't let me edit again. Most post on here I hit my editing time limit on. (and if you did set the editing limit at one day and I made my first post 19 hours before the change, then if I edited 20, or 22 hours after the change, I noticed editing doesn't show the time stamp, it should show that I am not lying to you)
(Most posts on here I hit my editing time limit on.) I am sorry I did that, I always do that, I try to make things less angry and less hurtful because I just write them with out sitting on them. I am sorry.
it really does make me sick after just a few seconds. that is why i don't hang out, cus i can't hang out for more then a min with out feeling ill. (i also tried and didn't use my command code a few times so my ip should show more times)
I don't get sea sick much, just the office and that effect. Every once in a while that will happen to someone with out them having other problems. So on the medical side that isn't that special, a little rare but not special.
So to me it is a bug not a normal every day computer problem. When i report to game admins of bugs even if it just effects me they help me out, they always have! and shouldn't 1 person, 1 friend.. be worth 5 mins of your time anyways? not just me but anyone? saying one person isn't important.. well yes I get that but on the other hand I am still a person, but this site isn't 1000 people, it's maybe 100 people who actually use the site and of that only what 10 have mentioned anything? And if it is a bug that could potentially harm others even if it is just one person in a few years, maybe if I am not worth it then might be worth it?
And Balco, I know your just trying to make peace and you have been nice.. but i am going to be a jerk out of desperation..
i will repeat my self, again if I have to, because I can't use the place I love. (The place I meet my husband to be, the place I came after i suffered loss the I come every time I am board or hiding from the world. And it's wroth repeating my self vs being banished.
t i really do now just want to come back that is all!
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korny
Member
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# Posted: 13 Jul 2010 10:33
Reply
Kaela, in regards to your motion sickness, have you thought about taking something for it a little while before you come in?
It's a silly question, but it may work.
Meclizine can be very amazing stuff when it comes to vertigo/motion sicknesss...after the brief period of drowsiness that makes you tell a woman in Walmart that her opinion is stupid because she has a nasty mustache...not that that happened. *coughs*
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kaela_donos
Member
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# Posted: 13 Jul 2010 10:57 · Edited by: kaela_donos
Reply
Again, aside from the office (and i think well and one scene in the first harry potter movie) i don't get motion sickness. i don't get car sick or real sea sick.
I will try it to test it out next time i have a few bucks (which might take a little while i spent all money on grocers this week) but i can't really drug my self every time i want to pop in if this is the only place i get problems, though it is wroth trying. thank you for thinking.
f it was added as a after thought i wouldn't think it would be hard to undo it? what loss would there be to others? What if i just ask please? please? take it down! shouldnt you guys be happy this place is so hard to let go?
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iain
Moderator
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# Posted: 13 Jul 2010 13:13
Reply
Quoting: kaela_donos So I edited my first post instead of trying to make a new one. I edit everything, I always do! I went back to edit it again after that, maybe one or two hours latter, and it wouldn't let me edit again.
Ah, I see! I am sorry; I thought that you became unwell even with no animations, which is why I did not experiment with changing the animation for you. To avoid similar confusion again, I have edited the time limit for editing a post to 15 minutes (rather than 24 hours). This feature was intended only for correcting minor errors - such as typos - not for completely changing the meaning of the post. So this way we should avoid similar confusion in future. 
As a test, I have hardcoded disabled animations (in chat and in spycam) for your command code only, Kaela. You alone (not anybody else, and only if you log in with your command code) will see no chat animations. Please could you try this out and let me know if it helps you?
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kaela_donos
Member
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# Posted: 13 Jul 2010 17:27 · Edited by: kaela_donos
Reply
thank very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very much!!!
it's still on some browers but not on others, i will switch browsers.
ii suspect that it maybe 1/50 or 1/100 that it effects or even 1 out of 200, i am wierd but i really doubt i am a medical anomly.
but thank you, i spent last night crying, cus as much as it is silly, i do really like this site and i felt as i lost a friend there.
and please please dont change it to 15 min, that might solve this one mix up but their are AT LEST 4 dysgraphics here and i dont know how many dyslexics, 15 min editing doesn't ketch when you missed spelled so many words, and that is what editing is for.
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iain
Moderator
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# Posted: 13 Jul 2010 21:31
Reply
Quoting: kaela_donos thank very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very much!!!
You're welcome!
Quoting: kaela_donos and please please dont change it to 15 min
I think about the forums as more like chat posts, or emails - once you've typed it, it's out there. But because the forums are more permanent, it makes sense to let people edit something if they clicked "post" just a little bit too fast. Does that make sense...?
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majin_fett
Member
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# Posted: 14 Jul 2010 00:50
Reply
Now if only the OTF chat could work on my phone 
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lzrman
Member
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# Posted: 14 Jul 2010 06:50
Reply
Quoting: majin_fett Now if only the OTF chat could work on my phone
It does! but it's so small! Email R&D and we can work on that 
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majin_fett
Member
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# Posted: 14 Jul 2010 07:06
Reply
Not for my phone.
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iain
Moderator
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# Posted: 14 Jul 2010 10:56
Reply
Mike - Which phone do you use? And what happens when you try to chat in OTF? (Mobile OTF is constantly in the back of my mind; I think it is the future.)
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tycho
Moderator
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# Posted: 14 Jul 2010 12:12
Reply
I seem to have trouble on the iPhone, sometimes the auto update fails me and sometimes it works just fine, just thought I'd mention that here.
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majin_fett
Member
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# Posted: 14 Jul 2010 17:22
Reply
Iain, I have a Samsung GT B3310, which isn't a fancy Android phone or anything. I just happen to have internet access on it. 
When I go to OTF on it, the login screen is very misaligned, but I can still put in my info. After I log in, the user interface (the top half of the chat when at OTF) appears and I can type in that, but I can't see posts at all. The bottom half of the screen remains at the login screen.
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david1
Member
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# Posted: 14 Jul 2010 17:58
Reply
Quoting: majin_fett When I go to OTF on it, the login screen is very misaligned, but I can still put in my info. After I log in, the user interface (the top half of the chat when at OTF) appears and I can type in that, but I can't see posts at all. The bottom half of the screen remains at the login screen.
I have the same problem, its inhert with the web browser samsung use. .. the bottom does show. but it will take you about 10 minutes for it to get to the top. Or youll have to wait for about 200 or whatever iain has set it at to be posted in the chat.
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lzrman
Member
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# Posted: 16 Jul 2010 19:36
Reply
When I use it on my ipod touch, and I find everything so small.
I find that I have to zoom/slide zoom out and slide lot, if we had 4 core square buttons [T] [E] for transmit and exit, since it's an auto refreshing / real time chat we don't need the clear and recieve options. then a slightly larger type box.
I think it would work quite well.
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david1
Member
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# Posted: 16 Jul 2010 23:09
Reply
r&d list it then ... throw us as example
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rag451
Member
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# Posted: 18 Jul 2010 04:25
Reply
I popped in the chat room for a little while tonight - I'm sure Iain will verify total number of seconds - and encountered the new sliding chat thingy. While personally I think it's a step in the right direction I believe Elysia when she tells me that some might find the chat movement disconcerting. Frankly, I did OK with four people chatting in there tonight, but I'm sure I would not be able to keep up if there were any more than that.
Regardless of whether you see her problem, I hope those of you who know Elysia realize that if you were having a similar issue, she would be one of the first to rush to your defense. She has personally shown me more loyalty than I deserve, and for her to stick it out nearly a decade in this community speaks volumes toward her character.
For Elysia, and for many of you, the Outpost is more than a chat room; it is a home, and for them, the people here are not only avatars, they are family...
Robert
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kerr
Member
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# Posted: 18 Jul 2010 06:38
Reply
I would appreciate it if there was an option for the chat not to slide, that effect is rather disconcerting.
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tycho
Moderator
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# Posted: 18 Jul 2010 13:20
Reply
Actually, when there's more chatters in OTF you have to scroll down to read all posts of interest no matter if we have real time or the old system enabled.
The real time chat stops as soon as you scroll down a bit.
Back in the old days you did read all posts and hit receive to get the newest, that didn't really change. As soon as you scroll you have more or less the same old.
I must add that I do not find it to be really hard to follow even when there are a few more people in the chat.
I've spent lots and lots of hours in here with the real time chat and I like it.
I'm glad to see that it was fixed for Kaela
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david1
Member
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# Posted: 18 Jul 2010 15:25
Reply
I second thor, its the same. and even when theres 10-15 people in the room chatting away its still fairly possible to follow a conversation.  ..
allough idea for iain....
bring back the filter!! lol
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kaela_donos
Member
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# Posted: 20 Jul 2010 10:17 · Edited by: kaela_donos
Reply
T. O'Connell and anther young lady ( I am sorry, I have egg on my face I forgot who it was) mentioned that they also find they sliding effect "disconcerting" and reported similar problems as I did, and once they found it out was removed from my command code they were also wondering if they could get it removed from theirs as well! (I think she requested it in an earlier posting)
Also a few people mentioned that they found it made it hard for them to focus and made them [dizzy] when the chat was busy. Or when they scrolled down and then scrolled back up (as thor said it stops the effect but when you do go to the top again to cheek on new posts it comes back with avengence)
But they just mostly said this to me and few have posted on here at all, and I don't think they emailed you so I soo see why it was hard to tell who this all was affecting!!! And I see why you thought it was just one. They tell me, some very much unprompted, but doesn't tell the people who are trying to improve the site! And I don't think any of them have had and major problems with vertigo in the past! So again, I see why it was hard to pin point the issues at hand and I do very much appreciate the effort.
----
The real time now since the change on my account is nice. And It still keeps that forum feel which is good.
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