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soran
Member
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# Posted: 7 Mar 2013 22:47
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I'm sure I'm going to catch hell for this. But I don't care. I (and I'm sure there are many others) do not understand this sudden banning. She always worked hard for this place, and she is a valued member, and my friend. I'm not saying you didn't have a right to ban her. I just want a better explanation as to why. As does she, yet no one in the Brass has told her anything. I wonder when theses supposed threats and attacks on members were made, because she hasn't been on the internet much over the past month, because she's been preparing and acting in a play.
I don't want to say it's a conspiracy, but it seems like that's what it might be. was there even a formal investigation, and if there was why didn't she get a chance to defend herself. Come on really, you can get banned just because someone says you were mean to them? If that's the case there are allot more people who should be banned, and I'm one of them. I've had times where I wasn't nice to someone, but I had my reasons, or had a bad day/week.
I just want to know more.
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daecrist
Member
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# Posted: 8 Mar 2013 18:15
Reply
Quoting: soran I'm sure I'm going to catch hell for this. But I don't care.
You're not going to catch hell for anything. You're well within your rights to ask questions. I can't promise that I can always provide the answers you want to hear given the nature of what's happened, but I can do my best.
Quoting: soran I (and I'm sure there are many others) do not understand this sudden banning.
I understand that it feels like this ban has come completely out of nowhere because that's what's happened with the general community. We've been investigating what happened for some time and it feels like it's been an eternity for me.
Quoting: soran She always worked hard for this place, and she is a valued member,
Both true, though part of the problem is exactly that she was such a valued member and still engaged in what I'm going to term a "campaign of offsite harassment" because we're still trying to protect those involved.
Quoting: soran I'm not saying you didn't have a right to ban her. I just want a better explanation as to why. As does she, yet no one in the Brass has told her anything.
We are working on a response to this. We're dealing with an unfortunate situation where threats were made and people are living in very real terror of Navi's response if names go public. There is a delicate balance that has to be struck here of trying to give enough information to satisfy without giving enough information to put others in danger. Every time we've tried to come up with something that meets both of those requirements it's been deemed too revealing, and again due to the severity of what's happened behind the scenes we're erring on the side of safety rather than full disclosure.
We are working on it though.
Quoting: soran because she hasn't been on the internet much over the past month,
I can say this is a pattern that goes back quite awhile. That's all I'm going to get into right now.
Quoting: soran but it seems like that's what it might be
It isn't. Unfortunately this is one you're going to have to take on faith for the moment. See the safety concerns above. We're working on it.
Quoting: soran was there even a formal investigation, and if there was why didn't she get a chance to defend herself.
There was. The evidence was overwhelming and given the issues we've had with high ranking people going rogue and messing with systems when they found out they were about to be removed we erred on the side of safety for the site.
Quoting: soran Come on really, you can get banned just because someone says you were mean to them?
No, you can't. The criteria for Banned For Life are far more severe than that and haven't been used on a senior officer since I joined the EC nearly a decade ago. That should give you an idea of how serious we're taking this.
Quoting: soran I just want to know more.
See above. All I can say is that we're working on it.
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soran
Member
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# Posted: 8 Mar 2013 20:16
Reply
Daecrist,
I want to say thank you very much for answering my questions, within reason, and not exposing those who feel unsafe. It just comes as a shock, and I guess I never knew that someone that nice could possibly have a dark side. I am just glad that I got some answers. Thank you again.
Soran
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rpmobsession
Member
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# Posted: 12 Apr 2013 00:06
Reply
Question, Hal/Iain/Whomever is in charge now...Is the community ever going to get an official and public announcement of the conclusion to this Navi ban than unban then Andrew, Hal, and her step down of management? I personally feel the community is owed this considering how beloved and involved she was. When Tin/MMichiel/Pat/Asim got demoted for that old chatroom stuff way back when there was an official announcement put out about it. When that one fantasy QC (alivan I think) went crazy and hacked all the website security stuff, the community got a public statement on it. I think it's been far long enough now to have decided what happened and the punishments, and I feel the community is owed some sort of explanation. What was initially said was quite shocking and now it has just seemed to go forgotten with a loss of some very active and loved members with it. If not, I feel dgoing so will just make the current management look entirely...weak and disorganized.
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daecrist
Member
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# Posted: 12 Apr 2013 02:18
Reply
I'm going to have to make this purposely vague, but here's my best shot at an explanation:
We were presented with accusations of wrongdoing that, given their severity, resulted in a ban. After the ban new evidence came to light that indicated the wrongdoing wasn't as severe as we initially thought. Which isn't to say that the new evidence made everything fine and dandy. There was still some seriously bad stuff going on behind the scenes, but it wasn't the kind of bad that warranted a ban for life.
Instead Navi has been removed from her position as ISA director and her seat on the Executive Council.
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rpmobsession
Member
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# Posted: 12 Apr 2013 03:02
Reply
Bad stuff involving sexual harassment like was thought before? (I believe that's what the original ban post said....for some reason I can't search through old updates anymore...so I'm going off of memory.) Was this online harassment or real llife? Strictly sexual? Should I be in fear of her coming to my house and like beating me senseless or just in fear of her coming to rape me? Lol (that would be a joke.) Come on, Hal. I understand needing to be relatively vague if it was that serious but we got more information when Mulder (I think was his name) got BFL for sexually harassing chatters in and out of chat. And, with that claim specifically, at least some details, I mean this girl does have some of our personal.information 10 years of her being here. If she is a threat enough to lose her positions, then why can't we know more about the situation? Do we need to be in fear of her....as in personally not talking to her outside of OTF? And, if it's not that serious, then I don't understand why we can't know more details. This is all really sounding like bullcrap and a smear campaign, honestly. I just don't get why we are being kept out of the loop. Never in the history of OTF has a serious situation been this danced around.
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pepsicola
Member
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# Posted: 12 Apr 2013 08:17
Reply
Candice, it was all bull crap. Why do you think some of the best people quit and probably won't be coming back. I know you won't ever see me in the actual chat again 
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tanneffel
Moderator
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# Posted: 12 Apr 2013 08:53
Reply
Candice,
There is nothing to fear from Navi. She is the same Navi you know, the same one she has always been. She is not a threat, and you are welcome to chat with her all you like. Have her over for tea, I'm sure she'd like it.
Navi is still part of our community, even if she is taking a break for now. You must know there were more people involved than Navi alone, and it isn't fair to reveal the details about personal conversations of members other than ourselves. Yes they were part of the case, but the case was more or less dismissed and the ban lifted. It didn't happen in chat, it is not public information.
I understand there may be some fear, especially from someone like you, Candice, who occasionally rides the line between appropriate and inappropriate in chat. Know that we learned a lot from this case and we intend to be more fair to our members in the future. It was not fair to Navi when we didn't get her side of the case. Nor was it fair to do this without issuing warnings, especially considering her history here, which was clean enough to make her ISA director. We thought the evidence spoke for itself. Navi's counter-evidence proved otherwise. We stand corrected.
Personally, I'd like to forget it ever happened. I don't want a stain on Navi's name, I want to remain her friend and ally. I want to sweep up the footprints of those who stomped off, and open the door to them again.
Unfortunately that isn't as easy as it sounds. But we need to look forward nonetheless, and dispel any gossip about this case. Whatever she did, it was ultimately not worthy of so much as Monitor status with the ISA. There is no mark on her profile. She's merely no longer the ISA director.
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tanneffel
Moderator
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# Posted: 12 Apr 2013 08:56
Reply
and Shannon, let me tell you about polishing turds.
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rpmobsession
Member
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# Posted: 13 Apr 2013 01:48 · Edited by: rpmobsession
Reply
well, I'm glad someone has finally said something that makes sense. Ignoring this problem and sweeping it under the rug is all fine and dandy, but when the last official thing we heard was Hal had stepped down and the ban had been lifted until the situation could be properly resolved...and then don't hear what the resolution was officially until now, that's a little crazy. My only point in this thread was to have a conclusion, and until your post, Tanya, I didn't feel like we had been given one. Glad to know things have been dropped, but I am very sad to see some awesome and energized people leave in the process. Some chatters around here need to feel safe making friends and also know there are lines and limits to how much one can lie and try to smear someone else for their own personal benefits. I understand wanting to move forward and beyond this, and now, I feel we can now that there has been a more definite conclusion. As far as stopping the gossip though, eh, good luck with that. Lol. We are a gossiping community and if someone has wronged another person through the means of personal outside messengers, we have the right (and would even if we didn't) to discuss that. If the people involved don't want their precious name and reputation to get ruined out of some cheap lies and spun stories....they should think about that more consciously the next time the get the urge to try and ruin someone's name in OTF. Minus a few, we are all adults and above the legal age, and to pretend some are more sensitive than others and deserve more privacy is a little silly. Navi didn't get privacy when this came to light, and if outside of the chat those that know and want to discuss what they know do, then those that in chat got their "privacy" and security over this matter just need to deal with it. Just like Navi is having to deal with it. We are an online community, and we only remain a community when people get to know how others truly are. But, again, thanks for giving us some real answers other than generalized bullcrap we had been hearing. 
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rpmobsession
Member
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# Posted: 13 Apr 2013 01:54 · Edited by: rpmobsession
Reply
also, Shannon, I miss you.  and your anger. and rage quits. ♥
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