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rag451
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# Posted: 22 Dec 2002 21:07
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<!--QuoteBegin--robin+Dec. 22 2002,17:34--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (robin @ Dec. 22 2002,17:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->I havent seen the movie, but whats wrong with Jayneway?? <!--emo&:v--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/bro.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':v'><!--endemo--> <br><br>Robin<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>Jayneway is our local beloved Captain who we all adore. There is nothing wrong with her save for the lack of time she comes into the chat rooms.<br><br>The real problem, the sinister madness that we are all consumed by is that Captain, turned Admiral, Janeway is in 'Nemesis', and we are all pained that that witch is an Admiral, while Jean-Luc Picard, renowned throughout the galaxy for saving it time and again, is slaving away on the flagship of the fleet.<br><br>If only it were the mirror universe and Tiberius still had his 'fun' on Earth with his 'friends'.<br><br><!--emo&:P--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/ton.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':P'><!--endemo--><br><br><a href="mailto:rag451@sbcglobal.net">CL4 Robert Griffith</a>
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babel
Member
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# Posted: 23 Dec 2002 02:28
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Robert, you made me giggle with that one. 
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rick_hunter1
Member
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# Posted: 23 Dec 2002 17:16
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Here's the deal..
Starfleet was really disimpressed by Janeway's perfomance while stuck in the Delta Quadrant. But they couldn't find anything against Regs to demote her for. So the only way to get her off the bridge and save another crew from a Janeway disaster is to bump her upstairs........
It's all very simple.
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babel
Member
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# Posted: 24 Dec 2002 03:32
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BRILLIANT, Rick! A very nice piece of reasoning!
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rag451
Member
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# Posted: 24 Dec 2002 10:49
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<!--QuoteBegin--rick_hunter1+Dec. 23 2002,17:16--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (rick_hunter1 @ Dec. 23 2002,17:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Here's the deal..<br><br>Starfleet was really disimpressed by Janeway's perfomance while stuck in the Delta Quadrant. But they couldn't find anything against Regs to demote her for. So the only way to get her off the bridge and save another crew from a Janeway disaster is to bump her upstairs........ <br>It's all very simple.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br><br>So, by that same reasoning, can we deduce that she is the one responsible for Data's death? I mean, come on, she's the one who ordered her suddenly dear friend "Jean-Luc" to Romulus...<br><br>*gasps of horror*<br><br>Oh my God, you killed Data! You bas...uh...never mind. *whistles and heads over the Ten Forward*<br><br><a href="mailto:rag451@sbcglobal.net">CL4 Robert Griffith</a>
<br><br><!--EDIT|rag451|Dec. 24 2002,10:50-->
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rick_hunter1
Member
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# Posted: 24 Dec 2002 16:03
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naw naw naw! only guys can be a bas... girls ar bit........ *cough* *hack* ahem... good day
Thank you, Babel. I thought it was clever 
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ayanna
Member
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# Posted: 26 Dec 2002 18:23
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Dierna ~ actually i remember reading somewhere that the said that Wesley is in it, but he doesn't have any lines, him and Beverly were suppose to have a section in there but due to the original time it was the cut some scenes out cause it was originally suppose to be almost 4 hour long.
I was Disappointed though that Janeway didn't have a Bigger part in it, that would of been interesting to see how her and picard worked together  .
My Favorite part was where Picard,worf and data are getting ready to go on the away mission and Riker tries to stop them and Picard refers to Riker as Mrs Trio *EG* the look on his face was So Funny *LOL*
anywho i LOVED the film.
Even if cutie Pie Riker did get married *sighs and dreams*
I know i'm kinda late *looks at all the messages, but hey when you got other stuff to do it hard to keep up with post
*disapears into the underworld*
Ayanna.
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rag451
Member
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# Posted: 26 Dec 2002 21:08
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I saw the movie for a second time on Monday. It was still as good as it was the first time I saw it, but I think I came away with a bit more understanding for all of the glitches that people have found in it so far.
I think the first "act" was rushed, as I think they could've left the extra reception bits in without sacrificing the film.
I also realize the illogic in having an android in six different pieces spread out on a planet being found because, suddenly, the Enterprise receives a positronic signal.
In addition, I found one flub in the film that I intend to sue Paramount over. In 'First Contact', Worf and Picard got themselves in a twist when one said the ship was 26 decks, and the other said it was 28. Now, who in the heck is right? In 'Nemesis', the problem is doubled when Riker says that there is a hull breach on deck 29!
All in all, I loved the film. It ranks in the top five, and I sure as heck think it deserves more accolades than it has received. It has its weak points, but I would love to see someone try and tell me that Star Trek II doesn't have its as well.
CL4 Robert Griffith
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lzrman
Member
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# Posted: 26 Dec 2002 21:32
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Janeway gets bumped up to Admiral over picard? whos still captain? *that is n't right*
*Rewind*
Janeway is now admiral because they were sick and tired of her yappin and complaining to the bald man who is a picard.
Picard agree's w/ janeways promotion so he can get her in the nxt movie (plot twist on her death) 
No reason
Lzr
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majin_picard
Member
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# Posted: 27 Dec 2002 21:08
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Nina Janeway? Is it really u?! Do u remeber me? Does anyone here remember me...*sniff* 
I was gone for too long...
Nemesis rocked. My favorite ones are the Search for Spock and Voyage Home (and Nemesis). HOW R U PEEPS?!
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greatestofalljedi
Member
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# Posted: 28 Dec 2002 00:30
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i thought that the movine was pretty god but i did not care for thier killing off data it was like saying that its ok if one brother dies because we still have one that looks like him.
but all in all i did enjoy this movie but i also feel that first contact was much better 
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rag451
Member
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# Posted: 28 Dec 2002 09:53
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<!--QuoteBegin--greatestofalljedi+Dec. 28 2002,00:30--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (greatestofalljedi @ Dec. 28 2002,00:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->i thought that the movine was pretty god but i did not care for thier killing off data it was like saying that its ok if one brother dies because we still have one that looks like him.<br> but all in all i did enjoy this movie but i also feel that first contact was much better <!--emo&:}--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blu.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':}'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>You thought the movie was 'God'?<br><br>I'm sorry, but I think you're referring to 'The Final Frontier', as it is the only Star Trek feature film to deal with God, head to head.<br><br><!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/win.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo--><br><br><a href="mailto:rag451@sbcglobal.net">CL4 Robert Griffith</a>
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dev0k
Member
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# Posted: 28 Dec 2002 20:03
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Can't believe it took me this long to chat about Nemisis, which I faithfuly saw on opening night!...
A real mixed bag...I LOVE TNG, and it was so great to see another TNG film. I cried, lots, when Data died The fight between the 2 first officers was intense, and the ramming of the Enterprise into Shinzon's ship was great!...however,
There were lots of inconsistencies, and I don't think they effectively targeted either the "die hard" Trek fans, or the average public. They did not develop the characters in the movie well enough for the non-trekkies, and they swipped all of the plot elements from the series or other trek movies, which was disappointing to me.
I really didn't like the telepathic rape scene. Will and Deanna seemed more bored than sexy, and while they harped a lot about nudity at Betazoid weddings, they did not effectively introduce the telepathic abilities to make this sequence work. Not to mention it is a total rip off off from a TNG episode. Then, exactly what type of feedback was Deanna getting by having her hand on top of Worf's on some targeting system? They should have at least had the typical meeting of the senior staff to discuss the possibilities, and have Geordi explain how this might work...
I also think Berman and Bragna forgot that Star Trek has (HAD) young fans. I took my son to see Insurrection when he was 7 years old, and he has watched my TNG DVDs of season 1 and 2 with delight. However, I did NOT take him to Nemesis, after reviews mentioned "sexual violence", and after seeing it, I think I made the right decision (Happy sex is challenging enough for a pre-teen). I told him he could see it when he is 16. (He also used to watch Voyager with me, and I don't let him watch Enterprise). Not a family franchise anymore, I guess.
Devok
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sonata
Member
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# Posted: 31 Dec 2002 14:08
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Yo,
Okay, after much mulling about, I decided that I LIKED Nemesis. Yeah, you heard me! I LIKED it! It wasn't the greatest Star Trek film ever, but hey, I wasn't expecting that.
I wonder where all you whiny naysayers were when Insurrection came out? Huh? I mean, THERE was a film that truly sucked in the firmest defenition of the word. Data was used a a repository of one-liners and catch phrases: "lock and load" *shudders*. The scenery was static and immobile, the villain unfrightening... and don't even get me started on that joystick used for "manual helm control"! Frell, Riker, take that thing back to Circut City and get something from Gravis™ instead.
Nemesis, on the other hand, had a rich backdrop. For everyone who's wanted to get inside the Romulan Senate, or learn about the role of Remus, this was a gleeful moment. I found the dynamic between Shinzon and Picard wonderful and frightening.
My complaints with the film have already been mentioned on this thread numerous times, so I won't reiterate them. However, I suggest members accept the final curtain of TNG as it was and focus their energies on much suckier things, like Enterprise.
Cheers,
- Sonata Form
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ayanna
Member
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# Posted: 31 Dec 2002 22:08
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Hmmmmm.... i have to agree Enterprise did suck. i only watched the second episode and i hated it. i had heard it was suppose to be 100 years before kirks time, the didn't have FULL fledge looking Klingons before kirks time, that was there first false thing in the show
as for nemesis well i agree parts of it also sucked including the part where the kill data, he didn't even get to live long poor guy. and when it kept mentioning the telepathic wedding, i was interested to see how worf would react at it *LOL* too bad the didn't show that.
As for the scene between will and deanna, i was grossed out. Will is my favorite character on the show, but the kissing scene and all well it just SUCKED. the didn't even look like the were really in love
anywho thought i would throw more of my two-cents in
Ayanna
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alpharex1
Member
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# Posted: 1 Jan 2003 00:48
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I LOVED THAT MOVIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Although it made me ball my head off when data was killed off. I think its the best star trek movie out since Wrath of Khan! And that's saying a lot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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rick_hunter1
Member
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# Posted: 1 Jan 2003 13:51
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Alpha - Definately!
I also shed a few tears for Data (don't tell anyone )
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tovey
Member
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# Posted: 2 Jan 2003 08:21
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I Just saw Nemesis i nthe Uk,
Its the best ever, i cant wait for the dvd to come out late this year.
ITS THE BEST EVER
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sue
Member
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# Posted: 2 Jan 2003 16:37
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As a long time Trek fan I am well used to movie plots being weak and corny - it's an institution. The first series outlived reasonable and I was cheering happily when Kirk performed his last spate of overacting. But, I am sorry to hear this is the last TNG film and it has lived up to the weak and corny rule. I enjoyed it but the fans just aint what they used to be and where was the 'where no person has gone before' speech that we all used to chant. Sure, Trek fans are a little weird but it was fun kinda weird and I miss it...
Nemesis nad great special effects...a few laughs and finishing with a slightly demented Data was an amusing twist...implied sex between Deanna and Ryker was the goriest thing I've ever seen...made the so called villian look charming and didn't add much to the plot...however, good to see the crew are getting chubbier (must be those fat paychecks) and it is in keeping with the Scotty tradition.
Sorry they included Janeway...and Wesley...perhaps one final film is order to finish them off as well...it could be called Star Trek Hamlet - the journey back to good taste.
That all said I will see it again if only to find the remaining plot flaws I missed...it's all part of the good sport of Trek...
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tovey
Member
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# Posted: 3 Jan 2003 02:05
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Sue, yer ill be seeign it again,:)
i loved it,
i cant wait for the dvd to see the new xo the extanded ending and crusher leaving for head of medicle..
its great trule great
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babel
Member
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# Posted: 5 Jan 2003 07:21
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<!--QuoteBegin--sue+Jan. 02 2003,16:37--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (sue @ Jan. 02 2003,16:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->As a long time Trek fan I am well used to movie plots being weak and corny - it's an institution. The first series outlived reasonable and I was cheering happily when Kirk performed his last spate of overacting. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>*l* Do I spy Kirk and TOS-bashing raising their heads? He over acted at times, but the same can be said of any actor. Shatner was a far better actor than some people give him credit for. At least he can laugh at himself <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/win.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->
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cappa
Member
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# Posted: 5 Jan 2003 11:13
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Okay I saw nemesis last night and I loved it. It will be the first film that I have ever seen in the cinema more than once! I never see a film more than once, not even LOTR. lol
Anyway, I just finished reading all 6 pages of this thread and noticed a few people asking "why didn't they use quantum torpedos instead of photons." I think I may have a reason for this... okay *breathes*
There is only 1 quantum torpedo launcher on the Enterprise (the forward firing Turret) Please bare with me... all the TNG films to date would seem to suggest this due to the fact we have only seen the quantum torpedos come out of the forward firing turret. In Insurrection, they fire photons from the aft launchers and in Nemesis they fire photons out of the aft and ventral torpedo launcher. Perhaps the quantum torpedos on the Enterprise E are a different size to standard ones, or simply use a different launcher than the photons, we will simply never know. Perhaps all he quantums are simply stored at the forward turret... who knows.
Other than that I thought it was cool all those familiar faces, Wes and Guinan. I really enjoyed it. The Best Trek Film to date IMHO. All I can say is that the battle was the best one I have seen. Finally we have people talking about the different shields and keeping the damaged shields away from the line of fire. Totally Brilliant.
*Goes back into hybernation mode*
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rag451
Member
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# Posted: 5 Jan 2003 18:24
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The thing is, they did use quantum torpedoes. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't they the shiny blue ones that come from right underneath the saucer? If so, then I'm correct. They were used in a couple of the fly-by shots where the Enterprise was going straight for the Schimitar.
The explanation about why they didn't use them as extinsively as they used phasers and photon torpedoes makes sense, but there's one flaw in that. Say you're facing forwards, as the Enterprise was; why then could you not fire point blank towards the Schimitar once your compliment of photon torpedoes have run out?
CL4 Robert Griffith
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tovey
Member
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# Posted: 6 Jan 2003 05:13
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<!--QuoteBegin--rag451+Jan. 05 2003,18:24--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (rag451 @ Jan. 05 2003,18:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->The explanation about why they didn't use them as extinsively as they used phasers and photon torpedoes makes sense, but there's one flaw in that. Say you're facing forwards, as the Enterprise was; why then could you not fire point blank towards the Schimitar once your compliment of photon torpedoes have run out?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>i beleave before the colision when they where facing head on, there tubes wehre off line,<br>and after the colition well they where defernetly offline or destroyed
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cappa
Member
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# Posted: 6 Jan 2003 10:12
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sorry I didn't make it clear. Yeah they used the quantums in Nemesis(the shiny blue ones) but they have only ever been seen coming from the forward turret In all films featuring the Enterprise E.
As for why didn't they use them at point blank range when facing forward, If I am remembering correctly and talking about the same part as you are Robert, (Just before Picard rams the schimitar)
The Enterprise takes damage, data reports on that damage... "Phasers at 4% photon banks depleted." through the gaping hole where the main screen used to be we see the schimitar stop and face the Enterprise. Someone asks something like: "What's he doing?" Picard Replies something along the lines of: "He want's to look me in the eye... We've got him! He thinks he knows what I am going to do next"
After that, They ram the Schimitar, shinzon clearly was not expecting that. I think Shinzon expected Picard to do as you suggested and fire the quantums at point blank range... but Picard didn't not because he couldn't but because he chose not to.
That's just how it looks to me from recollection.
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jayneway
Member
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# Posted: 6 Jan 2003 12:48
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Went to see with the (not trek-inclined) brother and sister. They both thought it was awful and a complete waste of time. I thought it was enjoyable enough, it had some great moments, but probably not enough to make it memorable. TNG is beginning to start looking out of date now. Not just the film, which I suppose it to be expected to some extent. Watching reruns on TV, they're becoming dated - which they weren't, at least to me, half a year ago.
So, in this household, two firm thumbs down, one erring on the side of up (taking into consideration the tomato that was Insurrection).
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babel
Member
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# Posted: 15 Jan 2003 02:22
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Well, I've seen it and it wasn't as bad as I'd feared.
The film was worth a two out of five for me. The first half of the film was, I'm afraid, awful. It was badly written, badly paced, boring in parts and made me shift around in my seat. There was one scene with Deanna that was, frankly, disturbing to see in a Trek film.
At times the personal scenes were awkward, mawkish or both. The Romulans were VERY under developed. They could and should have done more with them; especially Donatra. They should have established more clearly who she was and why she was doing what she did. In other words, her motivation.
Going into the second half of the film, things picked up. The movie was saved by an eye-popping space battle that was nothing less than epic. It DID draw heavily on earlier Treks (two and six) but for me, this was the most exciting battle seen in a TNG film. Picard was particularly good in this section.
Overall, the film was too focused on Picard. Some characters got barely a look-in. As I have said, it leaned on prior movies and you can only do this so many times before people catch on. The movie could have been worse, but saying this, how many times can you rescue a movie by having a great space battle? Worrying.
Oh . . . there was one moment of PURE magic for a TOS fan like myself (apart from Picard's TOS-reminiscent commands in the battle, re phaser banks) - seeing the Enterprise in drydock accompanied by the 'Enterprise' theme from the Motion Picture. I LOVED that moment; a huge grin split my face and I paid homage to the mighty Goldsmith *l*
An improvement on Insurrection but really, this movie tells me that Trek needs a rest and after that, fresh blood. To make another movie now with the same creative team would be madness.
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jade_dagger
Member
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# Posted: 30 Jan 2003 19:10
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has this been brought up b4? I dun remember. DIdnt wanna read all 6 pages. A couple things occured to me watching this.
A) Why was Weasle..err Wesley in a Fleet Uniform? He resigned his commsion in ummm...that eppy with the Indians
B) Same to Worf. Wasnt he made an Ambassador at the end of DS9? Would he even still be in Fleet with a rank or not? hmmm
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babel
Member
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# Posted: 31 Jan 2003 02:20
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Re Wesley, you know, that thought hadn't occurred to me! you're right, he shouldn't have been in uniform!
Re Worf, who knows. *l* They've given up explaining his appearance in THG films. I assume he's back in starfleet and serving aboard the Enterprise again. Maybe he'd evn be the new first officer? I know this Maddox guy was cut from the film, so this means that maybe Worf IS the new Number One? I'd hope so.
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nina_janeway1
Member
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# Posted: 31 Jan 2003 02:55
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<!--QuoteBegin--majin_picard+Dec. 27 2002,21:08--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (majin_picard @ Dec. 27 2002,21:08)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Nina Janeway? Is it really u?! Do u remeber me? Does anyone here remember me...*sniff* <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br><font face=Tahoma color=#ff1493>Yes Majin it's me, who else would it be? <!--emo&:P--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/ton.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':P'><!--endemo--> And of course I remember ya. Just wondering if you're still reading this thread after more than 1 month...<br><br>EXCUSE me everyone who critizised Janeway! <!--emo&:o--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/ann.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':o'><!--endemo--> Now everyone knows I'm the Outpost's official Janeway fan, and I think Endgame was the best Voyager episode ever. I'm gonna do all I can to defend Janeway <!--emo&:P--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/ton.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':P'><!--endemo--> I haven't actually seen Nemesis yet (because I live in stupid Sweden where they're so damn late in showing movies) but I know that Janeway is an admiral in the movie. If I remember correctly, the movie takes place right after the Voyager crew got home in Endgame, year 2378? *starts glaring at Rick Hunter á la Janeway* Janeway should have NOT been demoted for "stranding" Voyager in the Delta Quadrant! It wasn't her fault! The situation forced her to do it, and hey there wouldn't have been a show if she would have used the array to get Voyager home in the first place!<br>I think her promotion came from all the adventures the Voyager went through during those 7 years, and for the good captain she was. But mr Hunter here thinks they promoted her to get rid of her. <!--emo&:k--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':k'><!--endemo--> meeeean!<br>At last, cheers to Babel-the-Janeway-hater for doing a Nemesis avatar of her, to put in the TF chatroom. *jumps*
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