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wraith
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# Posted: 18 Dec 2002 10:08
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Seeing as this discussion came up through Babel's balance of the force discussion I figured it'd be good to hear from everyone....so what do you think of the many novels of the expanded universe.....?
Discuss   
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babel
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# Posted: 19 Dec 2002 01:34
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Well, as someone pointed out Lucasfilm has control and Goerge can veto things . . . I've also heard him say that he wouldn't necessarily stick to the EU if he does SW 7,8 and 9. So whereas he approves it . . . .does this comment of his reveal that the EU is not canon?
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wraith
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# Posted: 19 Dec 2002 12:59
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well I assume that if he plans on making more movies he wouldn't use anyhitng made by other people even if he did aprove of it. I mean he created the whole hting so no matter what other people did it wouldn't really be star wars unless he did it..though I really would enjoy seeing a couple of the novels made into movies...the thrawn trilogy....x-wing series...great books by some great authors*g*
Wraith
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kali
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# Posted: 21 Dec 2002 01:24
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Since GL has almost total and complete control over just about everything SW, and he is the one who gave specific permission for R.A. Salvatore to kill off Chewbacca in "Vector Prime", the book that started the whole NJO storyline, one would hope that, should he ever decide to go forward with more movies, that he would at least follow the storylines that he himself has approved.
That said, however, we can also always count on GL doing whatever he wants to do with his own universe since he DOES hold the keys to the kingdom.
I would, however, be very disappointed that after all this time, all those books, comics, graphic novels, etc, etc. that he would go back on what he has approved.
When one reads interviews and articles about and by his "approved" authors, it is apparant that he is very picky about who is allowed to write about what. And since his releasing of some of the writers from his partnership with Bantam/Spectra and reorganizing under the DelRey banner, he has even more control. It would appear that no matter who writes what for GL and his personal universe, he has to bless just about every page.
THe other aspect of this thread would be the reference books that have been updated in the past year to include the Vong and their biotechnology. Once that great big volume " The Star Wars Encyclopedia" by Stephen Sansweet is also updated, it's going to be very hard for anyone to bend the storylines. Unless, of course, that someone is George.
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arwen25
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# Posted: 23 Dec 2002 19:19
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Well, I'm new, but I thought I'd put in my two cents about EU. I personally love a great deal of the books and am just starting to get into the comics a little more. Anything by Timothy Zahn or any of the x-wing books are my faves.
GL doesn't go out of his way to flow with EU, in fact, I would say he doesn't really care that much about what was said in EU. If he did, he would have somebody around to say things like, "You know, the Corellian Jedi wear black and green, not browns and tans like everybody else." (this info in I, Jedi by Stackpole). I believe there was a Corellian Jedi on the Council in TPM (I read that somewhere, I just can't find the book right now  ) . I don't think he will go against really big events in EU, but he doesn't really care about the little things. Maybe I'm just nit-picking *shrugs*. If the Jedi purge is shown at all in E3, all he would have to do to connect it to EU is show a little red-headed girl (Mara Jade) being taken to the Emperor, or perhaps, reference some of the events from Children of the Jedi. I really don't think that's going to happen, but it would be cool.
babel, as far as I know, very few people, including GL consider EU to be cannon. SW connon is traditionally considered the movies only. Although, one of the reasons you don't find much pre-original trilogy fiction is 'cause George didn't want to tick off a bunch of people by going against EU when he made the new trilogy.
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babel
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# Posted: 24 Dec 2002 03:36
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I think that if George was planning to make more films (ie, 7,8 and 9) he would not have aproved the EU. For a start he's said he won't do more SW after episode III (though I know some rumours persist he is rethinking this), but he must also know that if he were to film 7,8 and 9 you could pretty much chuck the EU out of the window. I can't believe George would be that callous to the fans.
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hal_horn
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# Posted: 25 Dec 2002 02:05
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I just thought I would throw my two cents in. I have a contact on the inside of Lucasfilm. And my contact says that GL is planning 3 more movies. They are to revolve around the NJO series. Also, my informant said that too look on the main SW website. Where it has the icon of the currents movies ( including Ep III), you should notice all of the room to the right of those icons. ( found at the bottom * I think* of the website) that extra space to the right of the movie icons is space for new movie icons to be added. But, like I said, just thought I would throw in my own 2 cents.
Hal Horn
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arwen25
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# Posted: 25 Dec 2002 19:20
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I would be interesting to see movies based on the NJO, although I think the chances of getting all three lead actors back is slim to none. Mark Hamill would be the most likely to get on board, but I doubt Harrison Ford would have anything to do with it. Carrie Fisher might go for the idea, but I doubt it.
A couple other points:
- EU indicates that lightsabers come in every color under the sun, and with the big Jedi battle in AOTC I thought we would see a little of that, but we just saw blue & green. The only reason Mace Windu had a violet 'saber was because Sam Jackson asked for one.
- Boba Fett's life a depicted in AOTC is different that the EU version (Bounty Hunter Tales)
I'm sure if I thought about it long enough, and went back a re-read all the books I could come up with a longer list, but there wouldn't really be any point. It EU doesn't fit in exactly with what GL wants to do with his movies, he disregards it. He doesn't go out of his way to do so, and I'm sure he's not doing it on purpose most of the time (Boba Fett being the exception).
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wraith
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# Posted: 3 Jan 2003 12:42
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ahh! all interesting points! sorry I wasn't here to reply more*l* was wihtout a computer on a different island so couldn't keep up 
Wraith
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rag451
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# Posted: 9 Jan 2003 21:15
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I've always been a strict fan of the movies only. I read three of the first Star Wars novels back in the early nineties. I wasn't impressed with any of them, so I just stuck to reading Star Trek instead.
Through the years, especially being here at the Outpost, I've heard of the different "series" that have come forth. While I don't know anything about them, I would think that Star Wars has definately moved farther towards a reading medium than anything else.
If the quality of the books are good, and if the readers continue to buy them, then I don't see any problem with it.
Funny, I still have a few of my Micro Machines that came with those novels. Any buyers? *evil cackle*
CL4 Robert Griffith
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babel
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# Posted: 10 Jan 2003 02:33
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I didn't like that first trilogy by Timothy Zahn. I found them tedious and I didn't like the style of his writing. The Jedi Search books, though, were much better I felt; better paced and with a style that pulled you into the story a lot more effectively. I've not read any more, though.
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kali
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# Posted: 10 Jan 2003 09:57
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There is alot more to the Expanded Star wars universe besides a few books. The detail that has gone into the writing of over 70 novels, the collaboration between authors, changes in publishers, and of course GL's influence has made the journey interesting, surprising and frustrating.
When the NJO series is finished at the end of 2003, there will be 19 books in that series - in 3 years. That isn't bad.
Yeah, some of the books were (bad - Vector Prime - the worst SW book ever written), but it is a compelling story line and the direction it has been taken, and the contributions of some of the best writers were a treat.
For the purists - guess you have to go back and read and re-read some of the older stuff i.e. The X-Wing series (9 really really good books) or the Thrawn Duology (Specter of the Past - Vision of the Future). The Corellian Trilogy - not great. There are a few stand alone books that we could have done without (Darksaber).
Take a stroll thru the 2 SW sections of the Library - we have almost every one of them. We are adding the graphic novels, we are going to include the e-books. Read a few of them if you havn't yet. You just might be surprised.
There - a plug for the Library, a push from the Librarian to read a book, and a pitch for reading and buying books to support OTF. For more of the same, go read the Tribune - there's 3 articles that may interest you!
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wraith
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# Posted: 10 Jan 2003 15:24
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70? are there really that many.....woooah I spent more money on books then I htought*owns all the novels out in paperback* heh but I do agree with Kali*g*
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babel
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# Posted: 10 Jan 2003 23:10
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I think I've been told, folks *l*
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megaman
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# Posted: 11 Jan 2003 06:34
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i loved the star wars books. i've read nearly all of them (i think:P) and only a few have failed to impress me. the ones that have are mainly from the new jedi order series with the yuzhen vong. i find this books boring and tedious as there is little input from the characters from the original. i think the thing forgotton here is that thy should have expanded on the star wars universe but with this series it feels as though it is detached from the orginal star wars as we don't see enough of the characters we know. we are instead introduced to a new cast featuring the jedi kids of leia and han, who may well go down as the most annoying brats of all time. namely Jacen who, even though the lives of himself, his friends and the entire jedi order are at risk, refuses to fight back against a threat that is trying to take over the galaxy. i know he talks of his beliefs and i give him credit for sticking with them but surely he must realise that without a galaxy to live in, his beliefs are non-existant. other than this series of books which i find apalling, the expanded star wars universe is fantastic. it develops the characters and adds a new depth to the universe. i would like to recomend the X-wing series to anyone with the most remote interest in star wars as it is probably the best set of books written about star wars.
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rubi_con
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# Posted: 11 Jan 2003 16:19
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definitly diverse opinions and to each their own  just like all of pop culture everything is subjective.
I looooove Stars Wars EU and probably wouldn't be as much of a fan of Star Wars as I am now, without it. The EU definitly created some of the most compelling and interesting characters including Winter and Tycho, Corran Horn, Face Loran, Thrawn and Kir Kanos IMHO.
*coughs* and well of course Kyle Katarn and Jan Ors *coughs* now where did I put my lightsaber..?
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sonata
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# Posted: 11 Jan 2003 20:01
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Hey,
George 's actions are not meant to make a definitive statment that "yes, EU is canon" or "no, it's not". Rather, Lucas is being deliberately nebulous so that he can pick and choose what makes it from the books to the big screen and what doesn't.
I love the Zhan books, but there are a lot of wacky ideas in the EU that are difficult to resolve with eachother, much less bring to the big screen. There's a lot of little ideas in the prequels that have been borrowed from the EU canon. However, not all of it will fit, so George will reside over the fiction and decide what to include on film and what to veto.
Personally, I think that's the best decision that Lucas could make. While I wouldn't mind seeing a few hand-picked EU cameos in the last film, there are some things (New Jedi Order) which should stay locked in the domain of the novel forever.
MHO
- Sonata Form
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wraith
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# Posted: 13 Jan 2003 15:34
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Evn the best film won't capture what the books have...have seen it over and over agian..they may brin out interesting ideas and new things, but the books I ay ar far better coupled with a imagination*g* I'll aways watch the movies but the books i'll buy and treasure until they fall apart and I hav to buy them again....hehe
Wraith
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kali
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# Posted: 14 Jan 2003 11:42
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Its really scary when I find mysel;f agreeing with both Jesse and Rubi, but in this instance, I do. The EU and the NJO books have added a really new dimension to the SW universe. No, they prob won't ever see the light of the silver screen, but who cares. There is a heck of alot of character development, continuing story lines and new stuff to keep us busy reading for a long time to come. And noone has really even touched the pre-Phantom menace stuff - the real history of the Sith and the Empire, etc.
If we get bored, there are lots of books to go back and read and re-read, as Wraith said. Mine keep falling apart - thank goodness for used book stores!
I am hoping that after May, 2005, GL and his authors can turn the clock back and give us some real excitement on the page and less politics. Maybe we can explore some of the good really old stuff. In the meantime, we will just have to read what is out there that GL has apporved, or make up our own (plug for the Writers Guild and fan-fiction).
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silvrefyre
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# Posted: 14 Jan 2003 14:20
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can't resist wading into the debate here
i like the EU, in particular the X wing books - have become fond of the new characters and was quite miffed when most of Rogue Squadron wasn't in Starfighters of Adumar.
Although even in those books it's always nice to hear from Luke, Leia and co
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wraith
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# Posted: 14 Jan 2003 15:24
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I knooow! the x-wing squandron series was awesome! was the first series in which I had to rebuy books*l* cause I red mine so much...but I didn't see the ocnnection between the starfighters and the rest of the series..the bookj in itself wasn't bad it just really didn't fit in, and was too short to like go off on another tangent such as the wraith squadron bit..if they expounded on that whole session in another book or two it jsut might make more sense and be alot better*l* but yeas hehe
Wraith
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babel
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# Posted: 15 Jan 2003 02:05
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I read the Doctor Who novels the BBC publishes and listen to the officially licensed audio dramas, and the books in particular have established a much wider world for the Doctor. Things have happened that have had major repercussions for the character and if the TV series comes back, it will be interesting to see if those changes are heeded or ignored. I'd guess the latter, really.
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kali
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# Posted: 15 Jan 2003 03:02
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one of the nice things about the NJO books was that they brought Aaron Allston back to do a little writing. In alot of the books, both Expanded and Classic, we didn't have the back and forth smart remarks that made conversation between Han and leia so entertinaing.
For some reason, Allston has a way about his writing that catches the texture and feel of the "on screen" dialoge and puts it on the page. Most of the other SW authors give it a good try, but IMHO, Allston is thebest at bringing their words to life.
With the problems and separation that Han and Leia have gone thru in the NJO series and all the really bad things that continue to happen to just about everyone, it was nice to have Allston along to write Rebel Dream and Rebel Stand and actually give the reader something to laugh about.
Unfortunately, he is not slated to write any of the rest of the books in the series but who knows what is in the future - there is a rumor that he is working on something about the Clone Wars. I am very interested to see what the 2 new guys from Australia do to the next batch - the first one in the group of 3 comes out 4 Feb.
* goes and stands in line at Barnes & noble*
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wraith
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# Posted: 15 Jan 2003 10:42
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Its noooot Fair! *cires* bah stupid Hawaii takes yers and years to et any books*l* i'm still waiting for Destiny's Way....*l* got the rest of the entire collection except that one
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sephiroth
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# Posted: 22 Jan 2003 17:30
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I think as with all expanded universie books, be them SW or ST or whatever, there's no harm in them. Since you can choose either to stick with the movies or go with the books, all they're doing is giving a choice to people who crave more material =)
The way I see it, if you read a bad EU book and you don't think it does justice to the films then just forget it exists *l* It's not real after all, so why not choose to follow the happenings in those books you enjoy and ignore those you don't?
In the case of SW I think the bulk of the EU material is a good read and pretty well vetoed (sp?), but it still doesn't really have the same epic feel as the films. And if you read five dozen books about Jedi Knights and Interstellar dogfights then they start to become the norm and you lose a bit of the magic and mystery of the originals.
Ok, now i'm starting to defeat my own argument. I'll just go crawl back under my rock
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wraith
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# Posted: 23 Jan 2003 10:05
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heh prolly why I never read liek the young jedi knight series and such.....just doesn't apeal to me..sides there toooo short!*g*
Wraith
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budzy
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# Posted: 31 Jan 2003 07:51
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A few notes on the EU (shudders):
It sucks.
George Lucas refuses to read them.
George Lucas admits that the books are NOT canon.
It sucks.
The first EU novel, Splinter of the Mind's Eye, was written without the permission of Lucasfilm Ltd., and the author got sued.
Two words: Mara Jade. Evil woman. She is a mass-murderer, who never paid penance for her crimes, showed remorse for them, or tried to set right her wrongs. She remais unpunished. She holds LEUke back (no, that name was not a typo. Like Luuke, the EU version of Luke is a sad, pathetic clone of the original, and shall be refferred to by me as LEUke) and treats him like a lapdog. She accused Leia of trying to smother her and LEUke's child out of anger for the loss of Anakin, when all Leia was trying to do was give the boy a hug. And some mindless fanboys out there actually think of her as the perfect female role model. *rolls eyes*
The EU-nicks killed Chewie!!
The players are always out of character.
Boba Fett is NOT Jaster Mereel, Journeyman Protector of Concorde Dawn *rolls eyes again*
Palpatine would not have taken Mara Jade undeer his wing, while Vader was already with him. Even he obeys the "rule of two". (Always two there are; a master and an apprentice. No more, no less.)
And finally,
It sucks.
There you have it. God George created Star Wars.
And if God George says it's not canon, then it's not canon.
Darth Budzy
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nwaado1
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# Posted: 31 Jan 2003 09:21
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To me, if it's not the movies then it isn't Star Wars. I always felt that way. And I truly hope there will be no more movies, I really love the ending the way it is now.
~Nwaado
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budzy
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# Posted: 31 Jan 2003 11:02
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Damn straight!
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wraith
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# Posted: 31 Jan 2003 12:31
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*chuckles* well as youve said some of them do suck, and some things we don't exactly like, but it still is a lovely addition, that gives star wars fans like me who don't spend money collecting memorbilia to collect andread some very intresting stories..books such as the thrawn trilogy and x-wing squadron were great series and nothing in them is exactly out of character because can't character change over time*g8 I agree in a sensse and disagree in a sence, but overall I love the EU cna't wait to read more
Wraith
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