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terita
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# Posted: 7 Feb 2003 14:26
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<!--QuoteBegin--babel+Jan. 17 2003,02:48--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (babel @ Jan. 17 2003,02:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->No prizes for guessing who gets my vote:<br><br>James Tiberius Kirk.<br><br>He was a warrior, when needs be; TOS was set in rough and uncertain times. However, Kirk was primarily an explorer. I always thought that it was surely no coincidence that Kirk's name is very similar to that other great explorer, Captain James Cook RN. Kirk's Enterprise didn't just explore space; it explored the human condition, our fears, hopes, expectations - Kirk and his crew went to seek out new life and didn't just respect and tolerate what they found, they embraced it and loved it. <br><br>Kirk was heroic, compassionate, dedicated, witty, charming (I think we all saw plenty of evidence of THAT) and brave. He hated injustice and tyranny and tried to stop it whenever he saw it. He cared deeply for his crew and it hurt him badly whenever he lost a crewman. He also cared for potential enemies; for example, against all reason he rendered aid to Balok's ship, and he refused to kill the Gorn that was busy trying to murder HIM. <br><br>Kirk wasn't the bellicose, posturing idiot that he's been lampooned as - he was THE greatest ever. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smi.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--><br><br>The others I put into this order:<br><br>Picard<br>Sisko<br>Archer<br>Janeway<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>without a doupt captain janeway IS THE BEST . she is a very strong minded woman,not afraid to command. She is also very feminine. I was lucky to meet her at the London convention Every member of her crew was allowed to shine in each episode. So we got to know everyone, and I must say I liked them all. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smi.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smi.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
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babel
Member
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# Posted: 11 Feb 2003 06:34
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It's great that you got to meet Kate Mulgrew, seeing as you're such a big fan, terita 
I had a big thrill from receiving an email from George Takei. I'd emailed his official site and he emailed me back . . . okay, I didn't meet him, but I was sat at my computer thinking, 'DUH' . . . . dumbfounded doesn't cover it!
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rag451
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# Posted: 11 Feb 2003 07:31
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<!--QuoteBegin--babel+Feb. 11 2003,06:34--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (babel @ Feb. 11 2003,06:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->It's great that you got to meet Kate Mulgrew, seeing as you're such a big fan, terita <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smi.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--> <br><br>I had a big thrill from receiving an email from George Takei. I'd emailed his official site and he emailed me back . . . okay, I didn't meet him, but I was sat at my computer thinking, 'DUH' . . . . dumbfounded doesn't cover it!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>I met George Takei in person a few years back. He is just a delightful and gracious man. The convention that I went to only had about two hundred people in it, as it was by invite only, and because of that, I was fortunate to get three autographs and my picture taken with him.<br><br><a href="mailto:rag451@sbcglobal.net">CL4 Robert Griffith</a>
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nina_janeway1
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# Posted: 11 Feb 2003 07:36
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<!--QuoteBegin--skull_leader+Feb. 05 2003,14:28--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (skull_leader @ Feb. 05 2003,14:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hiya peep! *hugsya*<br><br>When Sisko was assigned for a time to desk duty under Admiral Ross, Dax was placed in operational command of the Defiant. Whoever is in command of a ship, regardless of rank, is addressed as Captain by his/her crew...and Dax was addressed as such. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smi.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--><br><br>Trip was, I think, reassigned as second officer when Subcommander T'Pol officially joined the crew.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br><font face=Tahoma color=#ff1493>Hey Skully <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smi.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--> *hugsyaback*<br><br>Thanks for the information! I've only seen about 3 DS9 eps <!--emo&:P--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/ton.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':P'><!--endemo--> oh wait, yeah T'Pol is second in command. Then Trip is #3.... *ponders*
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leilajaneway
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# Posted: 13 Feb 2003 22:44
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Janeway, definely!!! She's the only female captain, for one, and she's very cool and forceful! 
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alpharex1
Member
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# Posted: 17 Feb 2003 23:27
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Kirk is by far THE BEST CAPTAIN IN STAR TREK HISTORY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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nina_janeway1
Member
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# Posted: 5 Mar 2003 00:55
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I said it before and I say it again: Janeway is best. *points to Leila Janeway's post* Look at my dossier to see some cool pics.
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rock
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# Posted: 5 Mar 2003 22:00
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I wonder, has anyone really provided some solid evidence as to why Janeway is a good captain, so far all I've seen is:
1.) Shes the Only Female Captain
2.) some rambling followed by many !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We've seen all the evidence for the much better competetion, lets see if the Janeway defenders can provide some good information rather than just, JaNewY RuLz!!!!!11!!!!!!
Something like Babels post on Kirk would be nice, something coherent and actually makes sense.
Good Luck  *snickers and walks off*
-Rock
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babel
Member
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# Posted: 6 Mar 2003 02:46
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<!--QuoteBegin--rock+Mar. 05 2003,22:00--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (rock @ Mar. 05 2003,22:00)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->1.) Shes the Only Female Captain<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>This maybe so, but (using an old Brit saying) Harriman is a big girl's blouse. <!--emo&:k--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':k'><!--endemo-->
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nina_janeway1
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# Posted: 6 Mar 2003 07:14
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*shows off Janeway picture below* Allright Rock, here we go.
I actually CAN be serious and make good analyses.
First, you don't seem to like Janeway. But that's irrelevant to this discussion.
Second, I've been a fan of Janeway ever since the first Voyager episode, Caretaker. I was impressed by that she's a woman, and what a very strong leader character she is. When they stranded in the Delta Quadrant, she seemed to handle the situation very well and was very determined to get them home. (who wouldn't be?) But as time passed on, Janeway and her crew gave up a little (like 70.000 lightyears from home). Though it was nothing to do but to then face the new aliens and deal with it, and how the crew adapted to it all.
Many people think that Janeway is hypocritical because she breaks the P.D all the time. She doesn't! I thought that she was careful with the P.D even though they're far from Federation space, and after seeing all episodes, I still think that. Janeway is sympathetic, strong, charismatic, funny, passionate and very good at her job. She's also fair and makes the right decisions in the hard situations. One of the best Janeway eps is Night, which showed us how really depressed she got by that the crew was stranded and because of the empty space outside. But a better ep is Endgame - which is the best of the series - where Janeway got convinced by the cool Admiral Janeway and took the chance to go into that transwarp hub. They got home!!
I just simply love her character!! That's the very reason why I call myself Nina Janeway, because Janeway is da coolest and she'll always be.
Well, Rock? Want me to do an analysis of Picard too? *snickers back*
=/\= Nina Janeway =/\=
http://www.voytrekker-85.tk
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babel
Member
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# Posted: 6 Mar 2003 07:55
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Didn't Janeway once lock herself in her quarters for weeks on end? Why wasn't she relieved of command on the grounds that she was unfit? This was clearly the case and at the least she should have received some kind of treatment, and then an assessment to see if she was fit to return to duty.
It's these kind of incidents that get on my nerves, the inconsistency of the writing. They never seem to think through the consequences of anyones' actions. Come on. If you had a naval ship today and the captain locked themselves away, I think the men in white coats would be kicking the door down as quick as you like.
It's not Janeway the character's fault she cracked up, it's the writers fault for not following the logical conclusion of this. Silly.
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rock
Member
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# Posted: 6 Mar 2003 14:31
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<!--QuoteBegin--nina_janeway1+Mar. 06 2003,07:14--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (nina_janeway1 @ Mar. 06 2003,07:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->First, you don't seem to like Janeway. But that's irrelevant to this discussion.<br><br><br><br><br>Well, Rock? Want me to do an analysis of Picard too?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>Really, what ever gave you the idea that I think Janeway sucks? <!--emo&:P--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/ton.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':P'><!--endemo--> <br><br>I agree with Babel, she should have been releaved of command. Why didn't they give Janeway another ship? Because they didnt want to get anymore people stuck in the Delta Quadrent for seven years. <!--emo&:P--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/ton.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':P'><!--endemo--> <br><br>As for an analysis of Picard, here's one for you.<br><br>Picard is a intelligent, skilled Captain. His diplomatic ability was only outmatched by his skills as a leader. He was chosen to be the captain of the flagship because they knew he could be trusted with such a responsibility. Many times Picard honored the Federation by showing a great ammount of restraint and class when dealing with foreign planets or species who were initially aggressive to him, which later turned into future allies. Picard did what few other have done, he's outwitted omnipotent beings such as Q, defeated the Borg (before they turned into the farce that they were on Voyager), made peace with the Klingons and even delt with the Romulans skillfully.<br><br>Picard leads a complex off duty life as well which shows the depth to his character, shown in the kind of music he likes and the holo novels he participates in.<br><br>Picard was much different than Kirk, but they were both outstanding captians, but at different times. Kirks world was that where being quick to your phaser was a way of life and a need when dealing with hostile species, but he managed to keep a good balance with his diplomatic skills as well. Picard's time was one of relative peace where his skills as a diplomat honored him and the Federation many times. That doesnt mean he would run away from a fight though, when called upon the Enterprise served diligently under his command protecting the Federation from its enemies.<br><br>Where does Janeway fit in this? Her character has very little depth beyond the PD blabbering which she often broke herself, and regretting her mistake of stranding her crew in the Delta Quadrent. The writing for voyager is what made it a farce, its overused, repetetive plots and resolutions and the cheapening of major races and powers during the course of the show made it far inferior to what TOS and TNG were.<br><br>Also, Picard doesnt make alliances with Borg, he destroys them. <!--emo&:k--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':k'><!--endemo--> <br><br>Overall, Janeway is outclassed, and outgunned when it comes to comparing her to other captians.<br><br>-Rock
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deanna
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# Posted: 7 Mar 2003 04:44
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For perhaps the first time ever.....I completely 100% agree with The Rockster.....
You go! I'd go on and on about Picard being my first choice of Captains and Kirk being my second, but please just read his post. His arguments are well thought out and make sense.
The Best Captain for his time frame was Picard, and The Best Captain for his time frame was Kirk.
Remember, Picard, Sisko and Janeway all co-exist in the same time frame. Yet Sisko and Janeway.....ummm, well we can see by their Captaining abilities WHY they are not the Captain of the Federations Flagship
Kirk can't really totally be compared to Picard because of the lifetimes of changes between their time frames.
Let's not even discuss the newest Trek. I'll not go there....
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cutemacgyver
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# Posted: 7 Mar 2003 07:54
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Captain Kathryn Janeway is the best Star Trek and Starfleet captain
*stands beside Nina in this question*
2. Jean-Luc Picard = The second greatest Starfleet captain
3. James Tiberius Kirk = The third greatest Starfleet captain
4. Benjamin Sisko = Dont know much about him, have only seen the first season of DS9. Sad, because i really wanted to see the whole series
5. Jonathan Archer = No comment, havent seen Enterprise yet. If it is ever released here in Sweden.
=/\= Angus MacGyver =/\=
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rag451
Member
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# Posted: 7 Mar 2003 12:48
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*pounds Klingon Pain Stick on the floor* Kirk... Kirk... Kirk... Kirk... Kirk... Kirk... Kirk... Kirk... Kirk...
CL5 Robert Griffith
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nina_janeway1
Member
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# Posted: 10 Mar 2003 02:02
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Yes, Picard is a good captain and he actually nearly shares the #1 position as the best captain. But you must remember that when Voyager entered Borg space in Scorpion, they were facing the Species 8472, an even worse enemy than the Borg. What should they have done? It may seem controversial that Janeway made the alliance with the Borg, but that's what makes that episode so brilliant and exciting. Ya know, you don't have to stick to the old trails all the time; to make things cool and interesting you have to make it controversial. That's what people want.
The alliance also made way for a hot debate between her and Chakotay, among other debates those two have had. Chakotay is a good complement to Janeway, ex-Maquis as he is, and he has good opinions though I think the writers could have made him a better character. That's why I don't include him among my favourite Voyager characters.
As for the P.D, I think that Janeway tied the limits a bit because they were so far from Federation space, but I repeat that she is a hardcore Starfleet officer and she regards the P.D alot. Wasn't she forced to break them to be able to survive in the harsch environment of the Delta Quadrant? Take that!
No Babel, Janeway did not lock herself up. The only ep I can think of right now where she does that, is 5x01 Night. She's just as much a good captain as Kirk and Picard are!
Based on this, I'm not afraid to conclude that you Janeway-haters (or what should I call ya! ) certainly don't like that she got promoted to Admiral in the Nemesis movie. Well I do. She deserved it, after all the adventures they had been through in the Delta Quadrant and all the great responsibilites that comes with the captain rank. Admiral Janeway rocks!! 
=/\= Lieutenant Nina Janeway =/\=
http://www.voytrekker-85.tk
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babel
Member
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# Posted: 10 Mar 2003 02:59
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The episode was night and she hurt herself into her quarters, delegating decisions to Chakotay. She was tirtured by her past decisions. Chakotay actually said to her:
"You've picked a bad time to isolate yourself from the crew."
Well, quite. It was a bad time for the crew, yet their Captain was closed off in her quarters. Sorry, Nina, but this is easily grounds for her removal from duty - which is effectively what she had done herself anyway, by not coming out of her quarters for weeks on end. Silly writing.
By the way, I find myself in agreement with Rock and Deanna.
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nina_janeway1
Member
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# Posted: 10 Mar 2003 07:08
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<!--QuoteBegin--babel+Mar. 10 2003,02:59--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (babel @ Mar. 10 2003,02:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Sorry, Nina, but this is easily grounds for her removal from duty - which is effectively what she had done herself anyway, by not coming out of her quarters for weeks on end. Silly writing.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br><font face="Trebuchet MS" color=#D177A8><br>I think that is outrageous. So just because she had broken together because of all that's happened, she wasn't allowed to be human and be SAD?! See, that's a perfect example of how strong characters are expected to be. They're not allowed to have weaknesses or bad days - oh dear god no, remove from duty immediately if she shows any weakness or tendence to be human! *very sarcastic* I think Janeway had the right to lock herself up in that single ep, and that's what made the <b>Night</b> good! We got to see another side of Janeway. If you ask me, I think there are more things that would require the removal of duty of a captain - certainly not if she once would break down and tear apart. *mentally*<br>I continue to stand for Janeway, steady as a ROCK. <!--emo&:P--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/ton.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':P'><!--endemo--> <br><br></font><br><font face="Tahoma" color=#FF1493><b>=/\= Lieutenant Nina Janeway =/\=</font><br><br><img src="http://members.lycos.co.uk/ninajaneway/Janeway_s4_2.jpg" border="0"><br><br><font face="Trebuchet MS" size=2><a href="http://www.voytrekker-85.tk" target="_blank">http://www.voytrekker-85.tk</a></font>
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cutemacgyver
Member
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# Posted: 10 Mar 2003 11:18
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Nina is right, even a captain is allowed to have feelings just like everyone else.
=/\= Lieutenant Angus MacGyver =/\=
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babel
Member
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# Posted: 10 Mar 2003 12:40
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Okay, you're missing the point . . . .but before I make my main argument, Spock once pointed out that as Captain, Kirk didn't have the luxury of anything less than perfection in the eyes of the crew.
Okay. The writing. In an episode of TOS, Kirk had to stop Bones from saving the life of Edith Keeler. In the original draft script, Kirk couldn't do this and Spock had to do it. This would have been a disaster for the character - it would have weakened him massivley in the eyes of the audience and would naver again have bene a credible leader and driving force. So they changed it and Kirk went through with it.
In this episode Janeway was shut away for weeks when her crew needed her most. This is stupid writing. Why on earth didn't ANY of the production staff pick up on it? How could Janeway be a credible leader after this? the rest of the crew soldiered on in the void, why couldn't she? The writers don't think through the consequences of their actions.
A final point; I've said all along the writing was poor, I'm not attacking Janeway as such, as if she were a real person, y'know?
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nina_janeway1
Member
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# Posted: 11 Mar 2003 02:42
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<!--QuoteBegin--babel+Mar. 10 2003,12:40--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (babel @ Mar. 10 2003,12:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Okay. The writing. In an episode of TOS, Kirk had to stop Bones from saving the life of Edith Keeler. In the original draft script, Kirk couldn't do this and Spock had to do it. This would have been a disaster for the character - it would have weakened him massivley in the eyes of the audience and would naver again have bene a credible leader and driving force. So they changed it and Kirk went through with it. <br><br>In this episode Janeway was shut away for weeks when her crew needed her most. This is stupid writing. Why on earth didn't ANY of the production staff pick up on it? How could Janeway be a credible leader after this? the rest of the crew soldiered on in the void, why couldn't she? The writers don't think through the consequences of their actions. <br><br>A final point; I've said all along the writing was poor, I'm not attacking Janeway as such, as if she were a real person, y'know? <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/win.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br><font face="Trebuchet MS" color=#D177A8><br>Ok Babel I understand better now. It does seem like a writing flaw, a flaw among many flaws in Star Trek. But unlike some people I don't analyse all errors, so.... <br>Though the writers may have done that on purpose, to lock Janeway up in her quarters just to make it a more interesting episode. But I withhold my opinion; Janeway had a breakdown/bad period with all due respect (precisely, Angus) and she had the right to recover from it. Now where was Counselor Troi <!--emo&:P--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/ton.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':P'><!--endemo--><br><br></font><br><font face="Tahoma" color=#FF1493><b>=/\= Lieutenant Nina Janeway =/\=</font><br><br><img src="http://members.lycos.co.uk/ninajaneway/Janeway_s4_2.jpg" border="0"><br><br><font face="Trebuchet MS" size=2><a href="http://www.voytrekker-85.tk" target="_blank">http://www.voytrekker-85.tk</a></font>
<br><br><!--EDIT|nina_janeway1|Mar. 11 2003,02:43-->
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babel
Member
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# Posted: 11 Mar 2003 03:03
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I think that Trek needed a female Captain, I don't dispute that for one moment. As I've said in another thread, I liked Rachel Garrett.
I personally enjoy writing strong female characters, always have. It's a challenge from a male perspective; how to make a character strong as a woman and a person, instead of being a woman with loads of testosterone running through them. I'm a man, (obviously) so all I can do is draw upon my observations of women and, um . . also upon my 'feminine' side.
Did that get a bit weird?
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nina_janeway1
Member
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# Posted: 11 Mar 2003 07:16
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NOW I agree with ya Babel! Thanks for saying so. The difference between you and me is that you think that the writers failed with making Janeway a good character, and I don't. It's just a question of interpretation!
=/\= Lieutenant Nina Janeway =/\=
http://www.voytrekker-85.tk
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neo3
Member
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# Posted: 11 Mar 2003 09:34
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I think picard is one of the best captian and sisko is second
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sky
Member
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# Posted: 29 Mar 2003 16:06
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Captian Jame T. Kirk!
I think he was the best followed by Janeway.Who's the best first officer?
Sky
(I vote Spock )
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skull_leader
Member
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# Posted: 2 Apr 2003 08:36
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Best Exec? Nooooooo contest:
Kira Nerys!!!
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lefler
Member
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# Posted: 26 Apr 2003 13:42
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The Captains from best to worst in this order:
1. Benjamin Sisko
2. Jean-Luc Picard
3. James T. Kirk
4. Hikaru Sulu
5. Kira Nerys
6. Katherine Janeway
7. Rachel Garrett
8. John Harriman
9. Quark
10. John Archer
That's the order, but the first 6 are so close together it should be a tie.
The producers are totally ruining Trekstory by making everything wrong on Enterprise. First contact with the Klingons was supposed to be the catalyst for an intersteller war. 
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nemesis
Member
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# Posted: 2 May 2003 16:51
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Well I know she is not very popular compared to Picard or Kirk, but my choice is Janeway. She is just more human and less Fire-now-question-later-Kirk or never-wrong-Picard.
So in the following order. As for Archer and Sisko, I can't really say because I don't watch either DS9 or Enterprise
Janeway
Picard
Kirk
Sisko
Archer
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quincyw
Member
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# Posted: 2 May 2003 19:03
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For canon captains, I'd have to go with Picard.
Though if you went semi canon, I'd have to throw include Captain Mackenzie Calhoun of the "New Frontier" series.
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the_corm
Member
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# Posted: 7 May 2003 06:18
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1. Sisko
2. Kirk
3. Picard
4. Archer
5. Janeway
But I think they are all good captains, not much in it.
Sisko gets my number 1 vote because he is a warrior like Kirk but is also more cunning with a knack for diplomacy like picard.
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