| Author |
Message |
seele01
Member
|
# Posted: 5 Jan 2006 19:19
Reply
Hi folks, thought this might be interesting to some. A theoretical warp engine that could allow travel to mars in 3 hours and the next solar system in 80 days. I will copy the address as I am too lazy to cut an paste parts of the article.
http://news.scotsman.com/scitech.cfm?id=16902006
It would be good if this worked but I suppose we shouldn't get our hopes up.
|
anth
Member
|
# Posted: 6 Jan 2006 00:02
Reply
The problem i see with this theory, is it began as a means to find this new space propulsion, and magically did it against all the odds. The theory fitted the dream of finding this breakthrough engine. It was not a new discovery that then got looked at and somebody said hey! This could propel a space craft!
It can be quite tempting to make the facts fit when its been a dream of yours to find that breakthrough. The facts of this theory go against known physics. This is not a thing that could kill it 100%, cos known physics is not the be all and end all. It cannot explain everything in the universe, so by definition it cannot be 100% right, or a done deal.
But, this guy Heim, the man who's theory its all based on does assume that everything he says is right. For this to work he has to be right. Einstien was brilliant, but even his theories have undergone some revision, assuming Heim's will also, the machanics of this theory could well shift enough after revision to the point where this engine will not work anymore.
If you read on this subject, the theory firstly stated there were 8 dimensions to be used for this engine to work, now after refinement there has to be 12, hey presto, the new model of their universe has 12 dimensions now too. That all seems to be a bit convieniant to me.
I would not come out and say this theory is bad, its thinking like this that leads to breakthroughs. If only one small part of this is correct, it could form the foundations of the next theory that could well be right, or more right, and so on. Thats how progress in science has always worked.
I would not say that the U.S Airforce being involved gives it too much credit. They follow up on all sorts of stuff. Such as teleporting for example, and all kinds of wild things. Also a real electro magnetic engine is in development, which works in the universe we live in, in other words it works right now. Which could get a spaceship to 1% of the speed of light, that has many, many years of development ahead of it though.
If you believe some people, this supposed hyperspace engine could be run right now. If this was the case i would expect all development of space hardware to be put on hold. All flights to the planets to be stopped. The Pluto probe will launch next week, taking 10 years to reach its destination. This new engine would probably get it there in a day! Why bother launching if its real and valid.
It is very exciting to know there are guys out there putting all their efforts into designing a Warp engine, or Hyperspace tunnels to take us across the universe. But i have the feeling we are going to have to keep walking for a while yet before we start leaping.
Well spotted Seele, this is the stuff we want around here on this forum, if anybody else see's anything like this, slap it on the forums please. 
|
seele01
Member
|
# Posted: 8 Jan 2006 06:29
Reply
Thanks anth,
I actually saw it on slashdot so not really my find but what the hey.
Just one things that bugs me. Why is it 3 hours to mars and 80 days to the nearest system. Surely if its FTL then it should reach mars in a few minutes or so. Also, will there be any time effects, i can just imagine them trying this and a 2 minute journey shows up 3 days later.
|
anth
Member
|
# Posted: 9 Jan 2006 03:14
Reply
Seele : good points, it's 4.3 light years to the nearest star, that's 4.3 years of travelling at 186,000 miles a second. As opposed to Mars, which can come as close as 35 million miles or so.
All i can think of is it might be something to do with slowing down, every action has an equal and opposite reaction in space, they would have to produce equal force to stop as they have throughout the journey. Or use the gravity of the object at their destination to help them stop. Mars is very small, 1/3 the size of Earth, where as a star is enormous. They may be holding back on speed on a Mars trip in order to stop effeciantly when they get there.
This was the case for thee Apollo missions, they could have got to the Moon in under one day with their huge rocket engines, but if they had they would have shot past the Moon and out into deep space forever.
As for time changing for those on such a trip, the longer the trip and the faster the trip the bigger the difference. It's called "time dilation" its part of Einstiens theory, which has been proved correct. The Apollo astronauts were a few seconds younger after their missions, and atomic clocks have been placed on Concord, then examined after supersonic flights, they are indeed out to an identical clock syncronized in the experiment.
I have read Stephen Hawkings book A Brief History Of Time which explains all this very well, and in reasonably easy terms. I remember that we could be talking many years difference for missions involving decades of light years. Astronauts could come back much younger than thier children for example, or they could come back in thier 30's and thier partner is in their 80's having been the same age before the flight!
Freaky stuff happens when we get into this sort of thing. Trek gets around it by travelling with Warp engines. In other words they pull or fold space towards them, then jump over to their destination, they have not actualy travelled a great deal apparently, so time dilation is not an issue.
|
seele01
Member
|
# Posted: 9 Jan 2006 06:13
Reply
I really should read that book. Have to see If i can find it somewhere. I have read teh biography which explains his first version of the book and how they had to convince hawking to dumb it down.
I've heard the basics on time dilation but doesn't that only apply for going up to light speed. If you go faster (which i know is supposed to be impossible) do the same effects occur. It is supposed to be slipping into another dimension where time is faster so maybe this still applies.
As for trek, I thought they technically travel faster than light, but being inside the warp bubble the ship is not actaully moving. Space is contracted in front and expanded behind, the ship is staying where it is.
So can this new technology work the same way without an inertia type effects or needing to slow down at the destination. Sort of like turn the engine on, ship gos into other dimension and moves, turn off, ship reappears in normal space without any speed.
Lastly, will doing any of this bring the Shivans on us.
|
anth
Member
|
# Posted: 10 Jan 2006 13:54
Reply
I suppose they would argue that we are talking about physics in our universe, in this dimension, and if these vessels leave our universe, then those laws are changed.
I also suppose time dilation is happening all the time ( this is way outside my main area of knowledge in space science btw ) if it is measurable on a Concord flight, or a trip to the Moon which is fast to us with our primitive engines, then imagine the effects at speeds approaching 186 thousand miles per second! The faster you go, the more noticable the effect, that's how i understand it.
Also, believe me, if there was a dumbed down brief History of Time around when i read it, i would have. 
But, i really do recommend either version. Hawking does an amazing job of relaying things i really never though i would ever understand.
|
lee
Member
|
# Posted: 11 Jan 2006 01:17
Reply
I think the theory holds more weight than it otherwise would because it has correctly predicted (to a very fine tolerance) the masses and lifetimes of all the current fundamental particles.
'And it is the *only* theory currently known which does so. The odds of this happening by chance are vaninshingly small -something like 1 in 10 raised to the 64th'
Conversly, to reach mars in the time stated, astronauts would be subjected to roughly 192Gs. Where they would normally pass out around 10, if they were lucky.
From what Ive read, the gravito-photon effect (anti grav I guess) can be regulated by adjusting the strength of a very powerfull electromagent. By cranking up the magnet you can apparently achieve greater speeds.
They lost me at the point where they say that you can enter "hyperspace" if you increase the field enough though. This seems a little farfetched to me, and there's a 50/50 chance that light travels slower there, not faster.
Fortunatly the whole theory can be tested! And from what Ive read it will be in the next 5 years.
|
seele01
Member
|
# Posted: 11 Jan 2006 07:07
Reply
Well from what I read, his first book or rather proposal of the book was mainly formulas and graphs and so much jargon that we would never understand. What they published is the dumbed down version.
Having re-read the article, it says they hope to test it in 5 years. no doubt we may not hear about this for another 15 years.
Not quite as fast but somewhat more likely is a new ion engine design. ESA is testing it now to see if it usable. More info at http://www.physorg.com/news9786.html
|
