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camila
Member
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# Posted: 26 Apr 2006 19:13
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Hi guys,
This is kinda long but it's important...read on!
Here's some news:
In Uganda, there is a war! A war were young children are being kidnapped from their homes and forced to fight and kill. They are raped, ravished and used as human sheilds against guns and bombs. In order to avoid being kidnapped, these children have to walk 5 miles every night for two hours into shelter camps were they are locked up for their own protection. Every morning, they walk back 5 more miles to their homes and villages and attempt to live "normal" lives. They are the NIGHT WALKERS.
Personally I don't care about the politics of the war. It doesn't really matter who is right or wrong...but these children have a right to be protected. For those of you with kids, remember these children when you tuck yours into bed and kiss them goodnight. For those of us without children, let us remember our childhood...probably the lives of our younger siblings and relatives. Everyone deserves love and protection...including these kids who may seem to be in the "far off" land of africa...but this is the home of many!
YOU matter and your voice can make a difference. Please visit
www.invisiblechildren.com
This saturday, April 29th 2006, all across america and the rest of the world, people are walking into night in protest of the atrocities in uganda.
Remember, all it takes for EVIL to triumph is for GOOD to sit back and do nothing.
We need to be part of this, we need to open our eyes and see beyond our world.
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skevington
Member
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# Posted: 27 Apr 2006 07:34
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*shrugs* People can walk or whatever all they want but only one of two, or both, changes things.
1. Political influence.
2. Economic harm.
Unless you have friends in high places or can harm the economy of the government in some way to make them listen or to force them into action, protesting never does a thing. Millions of people protested the war in Iraq, one of the largest protests ever seen, but did it stop it? Hell no. Because they failed to do either of the above.
I'm not saying go harm the economy, i'm just saying that is what it takes, unless you can get those with authority to share your view. Otherwise, it is but a waste of time.
Dmitri
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fat_man
Member
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# Posted: 27 Apr 2006 08:27
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Dmitri now i really think you never saw the full picture about protests. We marched to let them the people in goverment know that we did want the war and our marching coupled with the public support Put Mr Blair in a tough situation, but with our efforts he wasn't able to walk directly into war without a fight. also its created a generation of politicied youth of which i am proud to be a member of. various anti war organisations ahve gelled together and right now the anti-war movement i still one of the most powerful pressure groups in the UK.
You sure have a lot to learn about Protests not only are they used to show support for a certain Ideal, another Major factor involved is Publicity, if you are out on the street shouting about the genocides in Uganda and Darfur etc, people are going to know about it, its in their face. rather than sitting at home thinking to yourself "ooh thats a bad thing"
Just looking at Fathers for justice, thier high protests like flouring the PM and their dress up protests, highlights problems.
Your theory that its a waste of time is quite frankly depressing. The make poverty history protests last year or Need I add the poll tax protests of the 80's. And the Anti Racism protests regarding south africa in the late 70's onwards until the end of aparthied.
Politicians are afraid of one thing, its Called the "great beast" the great beast is better known as the Public. And this Apathic idea that "it won't change anything" is detromental.
A great man once said to me "It doesn't take ten men to change the world, it only takes one"
Yours
man, fat
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camila
Member
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# Posted: 27 Apr 2006 11:29
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<!--QuoteBegin--skevington+April 27 2006,07:34--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (skevington @ April 27 2006,07:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->*shrugs* People can walk or whatever all they want but only one of two, or both, changes things. <br><br><br>1. Political influence.<br><br>2. Economic harm.<br><br><br>Unless you have friends in high places or can harm the economy of the government in some way to make them listen or to force them into action, protesting never does a thing. Millions of people protested the war in Iraq, one of the largest protests ever seen, but did it stop it? Hell no. Because they failed to do either of the above. <br><br>I'm not saying go harm the economy, i'm just saying that is what it takes, unless you can get those with authority to share your view. Otherwise, it is but a waste of time. <br><br><br>Dmitri<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>And how do you get authorities to match your views?<br><br>1. Lobby<br><br>Most legislators know next to nothing of the laws they write. They job is to write laws, not to know the details. Lobbyists fill in the details. There are amateur and professional lobbyists.<br><br>2. Vote<br><br>By voting, you put the people who think like you into office.<br><br>In order to stop the Ugandan problem, what we need is a bunch of pissed off Americans, who will lobby and vote for the politicians that support stopping attrocities. <br><br>How do we get the pissed off Americans? We protest, we raise awareness, we join the fight.<br><br>A government should be afraid of its people, not the other way around. <br><br>Indifference = acceptance. All it takes for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing.<br><br>(I will say one thing... it is much easier and more effective to work with local/state government than try to take on national)
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camila
Member
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# Posted: 27 Apr 2006 11:32
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*applauds fatman*
One more thing, Dmitri... It took me going to med school and being in charge of a Health Policy class in order to understand the political process. I had similar naive preconceptions of government at your age... I suggest you study more about it, like I did. You'll feel overwhelmed, but not powerless. 
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skevington
Member
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# Posted: 27 Apr 2006 15:05
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I'm well aware, i merely voiced my opinion poorly. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smi.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--><br><br><!--QuoteBegin--fat_man+April 27 2006,08:27--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (fat_man @ April 27 2006,08:27)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Just looking at Fathers for justice, thier high protests like flouring the PM and their dress up protests, highlights problems.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br><br>FM, I agree with most of what you've said, Fathers for Justice ran a <b>very</b> clever campaign, but if i were to look at their success as a pressure group i'd have to say they failed to meet their objectives with publicity alone. But i wouldn't say they failed to meet all of their objectives.<br><br>On one hand the group raised awareness of a genuine issue but they failed to get legal reform because they didn't have any of the necessary contacts within the political arena, they didn't have that insider status. <br><br>To back up my point, the poll tax riots worked because they affected the economy. The government could no longer afford to police it and put as many resources into it as they did. So to an extent, this is true. The same applies to the fuel riots a few years ago, they worked because the economy suffered. And the green tax on fuel has never been enforced. <br><br>Again, another example to back me up, look to Shoreham and the transport of live animals. It did make the government take notice because your ordinary non-political citizens got involved, but again, the economy was affected. <br><br>As for voting, of course, that works... but when you have a apathetic voter base who feel their opinion is worth little to the government and will make no difference it only gives way to passive dictatorship, as people don't vote, thus allowing things like this to continue. <br><br>But if people were to vote, perhaps it <b>would</b> make a difference, but until people do...<br><br><br>Dmitri
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fat_man
Member
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# Posted: 27 Apr 2006 17:53
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Actually, Fathers For Justice have had 3 laws changed in thier favour due to public support and 17 in review.
Change is a slow process in the UK, with laws etc. Billy Connelly calls parilament "the great shock aborber that takes good ideas and masshes them up until they aren't worth the paper they are written on"
You can't expect things to change overnight.
When Emily Davison killed herself in 1913 for her beliefs it took the goverment 15 years to change the law fully.
once you have worked closely with local level and upper level goverement you notice how they try to dig thier heels in, and they attempt to carry favour when it suits them.
to illistrate this, i don't know if you follow football or not, but when I was 11ish a friend of mine told me about the "Show Racism the Red Card" project, and when I about 16 or so and I had just started to get involved in that organisation, that project was still there unused. There were posters and fliers waiting to be distributed printed 4 years prior. And the reason why they were used was do to the Scottish Exec were waiting for the right time to use it. All in all it took 5 years for the Show Racism the Red card project to go ahead in 2001.
If you are looking for the Quick fix, its not gonna happen. Change, especially political change takes years and in some cases decades. If you follow the normal means that is, non violent protests..
But just think of the irony, a violent anti war demonstration. or a violent anti genocide demonstration.
i'm sure it kinda sounds all giberrish to you. so i'll sum it up with this famous quote from Edmund Burke "All that’s necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing.’"
Yours,
Man, Fat
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skevington
Member
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# Posted: 28 Apr 2006 11:59
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I'm aware that they've caused various reviews of the law, but i wasn't aware that they had caused actual reform. I'm curious as to what laws they have changed. Grab me on msn sometime. 
Dmitri
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hongjun
Member
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# Posted: 29 Apr 2006 20:43
Reply
Hmm,
I have to agree with cam and FM on this, to protest is good and to get up and do something is good!
Though protest takes time it does raise awareness and lets be honest the more people that get out and start saying that this is worng the more those in goverment have to pay attention.
Lets not forget some amazing protests that have caused the collapse of goverments!
1) people's power - phillipines caused a marcos to fall.
2) easter Euorpe - the first protests in the 50's were crushed, soldarity the union did not succed at first but in the end they did win!
3) burma and one amazing lady who has resisted the goverment there for years. She has attracted international support because of her stand.
4) Ghandi and all of those who were with him asking for independence from the UK.
5) A woman who refused to sit at the back of a bus, a one woman protest yet she impacted the US. (note RMPO's cpmment and my reply, seems that she was tired, I still think it had an impact!
6) Martin Luther King!
7) nestle go here
I could go on and on and with research I am sure find examples at a local level where protests have made changes, sometimes with huge costs and for some the cost has been paid but change has not happened.
Now where we are silent what do we see, we see Cambodia, we see Rwanda, we see blood diamonds, we see slavery (yes even today slavery exists and shame on us) We see the rise of the BNP in the UK (too my great shame)
We see goverments assuming that they know the will of the people and can do what they want!
If you have the right to protest and can write letters and believe in something so deeply you have to act do it! Maybe you will not see the change, but with enough drops a bucket will fill and overflow!
If you are indifferent to what is happening then find something that moves you to the point where you have to do something in an attempt to change it.
Protests tells goverments how people are feeling, they force goverments to pay attention and maybe even change.
Indifference does nothing but allow the status quo to exist!
Make a difference find something to fight for!
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rpmobsession
Member
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# Posted: 29 Apr 2006 20:55
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Hong - Just for some further knowledge, you're point 5 is actually wrong. Rosa Parks did not intend to start a big thing. She wasn't doing it to protest at all. She was simply tired, and her feet hurt her, so she sat. *l* She herself admitted this years later.
RPMO
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hongjun
Member
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# Posted: 30 Apr 2006 00:46
Reply
Hmm,
But ya know it still made a huge difference and had a huge impact.
So even if it was not a protest and down to being tired it is still a big deal!
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camila
Member
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# Posted: 2 May 2006 16:43
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Even if it was not an intended protest, it shows how small acts that make people mad can get a whole government/people to change.
*applaus Hong* nice speech.
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