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Message |
bria
Member
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# Posted: 30 Apr 2006 12:46
Reply
If you have sent me an invitation to be added as a friend with that new dossier feature, or are intending or considering doing so, this is for you.
I'm not going to accept the request, and I'm not going to send requests to anyone either. And that isn't because I have something against any of you, it's because I don't believe in this feature. I know that a lot of work has gone into creating this feature, and I applaud your efforts. I just won't be using it. I use it on MySpace, simply because that's basically what MySpace is about, and that feature is there to enable people to stay in touch. But in OTF, I don’t think it's necessary. There are chatrooms, and MSN, and a membership listing, and a hundred other things to enable people to stay in touch. And I don't want to get dragged into a subliminal competition about how many friends I can get onto my list. I don't want to be judged as popular or unpopular according to how many friends I have on that list. I don't want to feel underappreciated or whatever because I'm not in someone's "Top Ten". I don't want to make people feel bad by turning down their requests, but I don't want a dossier that's basically a list of everyone who's ever clicked the "add as a friend" link, either.
In short – I think all of my friends know who they are, regardless of lists that they are or aren't on. Please, please don't take it personally if I decline your request – I'm routinely denying all of them. No one is going to appear on that list in my doss, not even my best friend. So it really isn't anything personal. I appreciate the sentiment behind the requests I have received, and I do care about you, but I'm going to express it in my way. 
Bria
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citron
Member
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# Posted: 30 Apr 2006 13:42
Reply
To think, I was just about to say that in an email to Iain
Thanks for bringing it up here, I'm sure there are a lot of us who agree on this new feature...
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hobbie
Moderator
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# Posted: 30 Apr 2006 15:40
Reply
Indeed, thank you for voicing your concerns about this new feature.
The whole point for it being tested is for everyone to give their opinion so that the EC can have more information on which to base their decision to keep or to discard it. At this point, nothing has been decided one way or another, and any feedback would be very welcome.
For my part, I fully agree with Svenja's points and won't repeat them, and I am also particularly opposed to the idea of ranking friends.
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iain
Moderator
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# Posted: 30 Apr 2006 15:45
Reply
You're of course all entitled to your points of view! This is purely an experiment, and we'll see whether it's popular or not, and decide whether or not to keep it based on that.
Perhaps it should be possible to add a link to a list of all "friends" without having placed anyone in the Top Ten? If the concern is about "ranking" friends, that's a very valid point.
I just thought people may like, on a community site, being able to make the small gesture to someone they may not know all that well, that they could consider as a friend. I know that this doesn't apply to everyone - it's why we're trying it out. If you don't want to use this feature, of course feel free not to! 
Cheers!
Iain
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babel
Member
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# Posted: 30 Apr 2006 15:49
Reply
I'm sorry but I can't see the point of this at all. It's a waste of time and resources. Rank my friends? How the hell am I supposed to do that? I can't and won't.
I cannot see ONE good reason for this friends thing. I'm sorry to those who have worked hard on it . . . if I could see any positive points I would report them. But I can't.
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iain
Moderator
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# Posted: 30 Apr 2006 16:21
Reply
Hi guys!
Per popular request, I've altered our Dossier structure...
There's now an option in profile.fcgi (under manage Dossier, a tickbox) for choosing whether to show or hide the friends feature in dossier. If enabled, even if no "top friends" are chosen (and I appreciate that people may well not want to distinguish between their friends, which is fine! a link is added to dossiers, linking to an UNORDERED full list of friends. (Well, ordered by the usual OTF method: rank, then handle.)
Now, you can add friends if you like - AND have them show in your dossier without having ranked them... what is shown is a link, inviting the person to go to a page showing all the friends, but given in the order typical for OTF rosters (by rank, then alphabetical handle).
Since "ranking friends" (which was never meant to cause offense, but provide a nice way for best friends to show their friendship) doesn't want to be done by all, removing the need to "rank" friends to enable the friends features in dossiers is now done.
Perhaps this removes many of the concerns? I personally can't see how offense could be caused by the friendly gesture of requesting adding someone to a list of your friends.
Cheers!
Iain
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babel
Member
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# Posted: 30 Apr 2006 16:31
Reply
But Iain, my point still stands . .what is the point of it? Why have resources been put into it, when, to cite one example, the Guilds have been crying out for support for a redesign to no avail?
Tell me why, exactly, OTF has seen fit to go ahead with this feature. Convince me!
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iain
Moderator
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# Posted: 30 Apr 2006 16:35
Reply
Well, the simple answer to that question is that this is a personal project of mine... which only took me approximately two hours to implement, and which I (because I'm mad) found fun to implement.
It's in place because I thought it might (and then again it might not, but with such a small investment of time to find out... thought we might as well try it and see! make some people happy. Certainly, it makes me happy to see in my inbox that some people have made the friendly gesture, showing that they consider me their friend.
The Guilds redesign, I can't help with though, since I'm not a web designer. No scripts in OTF are crying out for attention, which is what I can do, thus I decided to use a small amount of my time to see if I could add a feature, which may yet turn out to be popular, and thus make people happy. (It's too early to tell.)
Cheers!
Iain
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demonvamp
Member
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# Posted: 30 Apr 2006 16:47
Reply
What's the point of most things  I won't rank people, probably won't invite, but it doesn't mean it shouldn't be given a fair go. Most everything has a friends list these days and, you never know, it may be able to lead into something else in the future that will aid us immensely.
Even if it helps new folk keep track of people always changing username, then it's doing something. Is it about full inboxes, as people you don't know try to grab you as a friend? Maybe it could eventually send all invites into the profile manager... I dunno. If you go back into the forums far enough I see topics bemoaning them, yet they're an integral part of otf now, right?
It's not really hurting anyone, so let's just kick our shoes off, grab a beer and party.
QD, fringedweller.
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iain
Moderator
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# Posted: 30 Apr 2006 16:50
Reply
Well said, that Demon!
Iain
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polson
Member
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# Posted: 30 Apr 2006 21:06
Reply
Well, personally, I'm kind of picky about who I actually consider my friend - most people in my life are my aquaintences and nothing more. I usually avoid these kinds of things because people take it personally if I deny them. It can be really awkward to have to say no to one person and yet they know you've said yes to another.
So here's what I've decided...I will opt to have the friend list in my own dossier turned off so no one can see my friends list. If someone I consider a friend (by Polson definitions of the word) attempts to add me I'll let them, but I won't be parading them around. If someone I don't consider close enough tries to add me, I'm going to deny them - hurt feelings and all. No one is defined by my acceptance of them. All it means is I'm socially picky and it says nothing about you that you need to take to heart and feel wounded over. Also, I will not be inviting anyone to my list.
In truth, I think the whole idea is asking for trouble. It's hard to say no to unwanted attention when it's so public. I'm sure the popular-everybody-is-my-friend-sanguines out there are going to be tickled pink with this and will not see the issue. But for us melancholy choleric types who refuse to be popular or accept superficial popularity contests or superficial relationships as kosher, we're going to always hate it. Everybody is not my friend. And of all the people I know in rl, there are very very very very few people I consider a friend that I would want to intentionally spend time with, and beyond that only five or so I would consider closer friends - meaning I would actually call them on the phone, and beyond that, only one that I would ever confide in. I do not like people. It's not your fault. Don't feel offended if I say no.
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hongjun
Member
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# Posted: 1 May 2006 01:46
Reply
Hmm,
This is a trail feature and we do want her comments for and against, so please keep posting.
I have pinned the thread by the way
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shakeycat
Moderator
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# Posted: 1 May 2006 03:09
Reply
Experiments are fun!!
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secretly
Member
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# Posted: 1 May 2006 04:05
Reply
When first seeing this system I admit that the first thought that crossed my mind was "Why?". While it is a nice little feature on MySpace, I see no reason for there to be a "rank your friends" option here. Many new members sign up every day and it will likely be disheartening to see the long lists of friends that people have, and not be a part of it.
To me, it does seem like an unnecessary addition, and while it may be nice to have someone send you an automated email telling you they consider you a friend, surely it is much better to tell them over msn or even in chat. I will accept/deny requests as I see fit, but from now on, I will not be adding anyone, or displaying my friends, ranked or otherwise in my dossier.
If you consider me a friend, let me know in some way that doesn't involved the system sending me an automated email, after all, 'tis always nice to hear it in person
CL6 Estella/Kooki/Amy/Girl of many, many names
edit: Deleted - Nevermind =( =P
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babel
Member
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# Posted: 1 May 2006 04:30
Reply
fair enough Iain!
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polson
Member
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# Posted: 1 May 2006 07:14
Reply
Jeremy's my friend. *nods* List or no list.
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crazytexan
Member
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# Posted: 1 May 2006 07:37
Reply
I apologize in advance folks. I will not be approving any requests from you to be added to my friends list, nor will I send a request to be added on anyone's list. So if you have already e-mailed me in hopes of being added to your list, then I am going to decline you. Either I add EVERYONE or NO ONE.
It's only fair as I wouldn't want to exclude anyone, nor do I desire to "list" my friends. They know who they are and let's leave it at that.
Like most of the extra dossier information OTF offers, this is OPTIONAL and it is your personal choice to participate or not.
CT
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tiamai
Member
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# Posted: 1 May 2006 07:59
Reply
think you are making a big deal about nothing to be honest. Was meant as a gimic. But then again, when certain people in this place take offence at the work 'boing' I am not supprised things get blown out of proportion.
Besides, I think it is really time to get over it.
Know what I mean?
Get a grip, chill, get over yourself?
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citron
Member
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# Posted: 1 May 2006 09:43
Reply
Don't know if this is doable.. but why not have an "opt out" feature? So that if you if select to opt out of it, the Add a Friend feature wouldn't be in your dossier.
And Tia, remember that not everything means the same in every country. While it may not be offensive to you, it may be to someone else living elsewhere..
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demonvamp
Member
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# Posted: 1 May 2006 10:05
Reply
<!--QuoteBegin--citron+May 01 2006,09:43--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (citron @ May 01 2006,09:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Don't know if this is doable.. but why not have an "opt out" feature? So that if you if select to opt out of it, the Add a Friend feature wouldn't be in your dossier. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>I was going to suggest that, you beat me to it <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/haw.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo--> <br><br>It's a good idea, then you can play or not <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/win.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo--> Though I still don't see what all the fuss is about. Maybe we should rename it 'people I sort of know but who haven't walked over hot coals for me' list.<br><br>I have lj friends I've never met, doesn't stop me adding them if I'm interested about things they say or do. If otf wants to keep up with things like that and msn spaces *which I pretty much loath for being full of twits and sluggish* then having bit and pieces added will stop it getting stale. One day the dossiers themselves might be like myspace *they sort of are now* with fun features and mini blogs *much more fun than normal blogs and less full of waffle*<br>Think of the friends list as a tracking tool. I look at it and think, 'Oh, you know them too!'<br><br>Maybe I'm just a hippy. I don't judge friends lightly *by hades, this Demon is the most untrusting person on the planet* but then again, I don't think this is the end of the universe. Have the ability to turn off the invite, and we'll all be happy again in a week.<br><br>QD <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/win.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->
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tiamai
Member
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# Posted: 1 May 2006 11:06
Reply
<!--QuoteBegin--citron+May 01 2006,09:43--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (citron @ May 01 2006,09:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->And Tia, remember that not everything means the same in every country. While it may not be offensive to you, it may be to someone else living elsewhere.. <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/win.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>Poor winnie the pooh.... and tigger too.... <br><br>*lol* <br><br>sorry, yes, yes, I know....
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bria
Member
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# Posted: 1 May 2006 11:18
Reply
Wow, I actually started a thread that people are replying to.  But I guess feedback is good, right?
I would like to say one thing, though, in case that wasn't clear: I'm not calling for the feature to be trashed. I'm also not criticising Iain for implementing it in the first place. I'm pretty sure that some people will use it, and consider it an advantage, and that's fine. I just happen to disagree with it, that's my personal viewpoint and I shan't attempt to force it on anyone else.
I just wanted to make it clear that I'm not going to participate, because of the reasons listed above. And that it has nothing to do with whether I consider people here my friends or not. And most importantly, please don't get offended if I turn you down, 'cause I'm turning everyone down. Which isn't a judgement of the system as a whole; I guess I'm just being careful, because I really don't want to get dragged into competitions etc. Just my personal choice. (@)
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babel
Member
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# Posted: 1 May 2006 11:56
Reply
My concern is that this will intensify the inherent cliqueiness of OTF and make those who feel unpopular feel even worse. 'I'm not in anyone's friends list' for example. Cliques? Places like OTF can't help but have them. This feature, however, increases that trend. I read what Iain had to say but I'm afraid I am going to have to come out and voice my 100% opposition to this idea. Sorry, Iain.
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richard
Member
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# Posted: 1 May 2006 13:08
Reply
Wow! A three page thread, and I haven't got a smeggin clue what it's about.
We seem to have a new feature in the doss? That's nice. For those who actually LOOK at people's dossiers.
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fat_man
Member
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# Posted: 1 May 2006 13:43
Reply
I actually Agree With Bria.
that is all
yours
man, fat
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teekay
Member
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# Posted: 1 May 2006 15:15
Reply
I agree with CT.
that is all
yours
K, T
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deanna
Member
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# Posted: 1 May 2006 17:40
Reply
I am friendless...
Yours,
D, K ........ that sorta sounds wonky, don't you think? *L*
On a serious note, I'm not going to play either..but it's not for any real reason, I just don't have time *L*
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crewmannick
Member
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# Posted: 1 May 2006 17:44
Reply
Hey
I see how many people could be opposed to such a feature, but when you think about it, there is always the option of turning it off and the ranking part was optional to begin with. The "top friends" wouldn't be shown until you arranged them.
This feature mainly appeals to the younger crowd (and by young I mean teenagers) because it does indeed resemble the "Myspace Top 8". I think if anyone here at OTF wants to use it, they can, and anyone they add who is opposed can simply deny the request.
Since OTF was never a popularity contest to begin with, I don't think that just because everyone now has an option of arranging their "top friends" that anyone should feel unwanted or underappreciated.
Alex
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polson
Member
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# Posted: 1 May 2006 17:51
Reply
I know who my friends are. I don't need to wave them around like a banner, nor do I need to be waved around. Admitedly, I love to see my name posted EVERYWHERE, but that's another matter.
Like I said before, personality plays a big part as to whether or not you're going to like this. Some people are just "everybody is my friend! Yay!" like my sister, and some people are "don't bug me or I'll rip your face off" like me. There are the occational in betweeners. I think it's a dangerous idea because some people really do base who they are on who likes them. I don't think we should encourage that.
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tiamai
Member
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# Posted: 2 May 2006 03:13
Reply
<!--QuoteBegin--richard+May 01 2006,13:08--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (richard @ May 01 2006,13:08)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Wow! A three page thread, and I haven't got a smeggin clue what it's about.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>Do you ever have a smeggin clue anyway? <br><br> <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/haw.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:P--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/ton.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':P'><!--endemo-->
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