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babel
Member
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# Posted: 6 Jun 2006 16:10
Reply
We thrive by pulling in new members on a constant basis, yet it has been my observation that lately, newcomers come into the chat and are largely ignored. This was borne out in an experiment I conducted tonight , where I logged in as a newbie and only one person, Soka, said hello, I was 100% ignored apart from her - I logged in as myself a few moments later and got welcomed in.
I've noticed a lot of this recently, where real newbies are put through similar treatment and, ladies and gentlemen, we, ALL of us, are falling down. We should be welcoming these people in, showing them the real OTF spirit and instead they are greeted by impenetrable cliques. Cliques are inevitable in social circles - I've been part of enough of them to know that - but people often come to places like OTF because they feel they need a place to fit in, to make friends - and one of OTF's strengths is that ability to bring people in and make the part of our community.
I am not having a go - I am not pointing the finger. All I seek to do is to remind us all - me included - of what made OTF great. Let's welcome new people. Let's pull up a chair for them and talk to them. It's encumbent on all of us to do this - and to thereby further enrich the wonderful place that is OTF by brining in new blood, new people who may be today's newbies - but tomorrow's friends.
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iain
Moderator
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# Posted: 7 Jun 2006 00:32
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<!--QuoteBegin--babel+June 06 2006,16:10--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (babel @ June 06 2006,16:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Let's welcome new people. Let's pull up a chair for them and talk to them. It's encumbent on all of us to do this - and to thereby further enrich the wonderful place that is OTF by brining in new blood, new people who may be today's newbies - but tomorrow's friends.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>Well said, Babel!<br><br>I wholeheartedly concur with every word that you said, and most particularly those which I've quoted again above.<br><br>Cheers! <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smi.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--><br>Iain
<br><br><!--EDIT|iain|June 07 2006,00:33-->
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polgara
Member
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# Posted: 7 Jun 2006 04:27
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I agree!
I have done a simulair experiment myself a couple of times, first as a joke, then i realised that new people do get ignored.
It's always a good way of refreshing and keeping OTF a interesting place, by trying to draw new people and new ideas to the place. 
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ajcardall
Member
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# Posted: 7 Jun 2006 05:02
Reply
If I'm sat in a pub or other such establishment, and someone I don't know enters, I don't charge over and greet them. If they said hellp to me, I'd be polite and say hello and give them a nod or something. It's the same everywhere. For everyone.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we should shun new people, I just think it's a case of mountains out of mole hills. I wasn't waited on hands and feet when I first came here, but it didn't bother me in the slightest. When you're entering a place - either cyber or real life - for the first time, you're crossing a threshold where you know there will already be close-knit groups of people. It's not as if we alienate the new members - if they talk to me, as I said, I'd happily make conversation. It encourages intigration and the making of new friends and associates. I don't think we all have to start clambering over one another to greet everyone that walks through the door...
It's the way of things and I don't predict a change any time soon.
Does this make me public enemy number one?
Probably.
Cheers folks!
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polgara
Member
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# Posted: 7 Jun 2006 05:07
Reply
ummm.. actually the whole problem is that they dont get greeted eventhough they talk to others..loads of times everyone is so into eachother that they dont even notice the newbie..well unless you knew, it was me the annoying Polgara trying to pass for a noob? 
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lupus
Member
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# Posted: 7 Jun 2006 05:52
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<!--QuoteBegin--ajcardall+June 07 2006,05:02--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (ajcardall @ June 07 2006,05:02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->It's not as if we alienate the new members - if they talk to me, as I said, I'd happily make conversation. It encourages intigration and the making of new friends and associates. I don't think we all have to start clambering over one another to greet everyone that walks through the door...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br><font color= olive drab>I think you have missed the point there. Its not about jumping on every newbie who walks in the door. Its about talking to them when they talk to you. Not completely ignoring them and hoping someone else will.<br><br>hell, even I think I have been a culprit of that. In a busy room, when you are already got 2 or 3 conversations going with others, its easy to just ignor that single hello from that crewman.<br><br>I understand where you are coming from though. You only really get the Cheers style welcome when you have been around a bit. Its a balance...
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ajcardall
Member
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# Posted: 7 Jun 2006 05:59
Reply
Well ofcourse in a busy room, with several conversations on going, people are going to miss posts made by almost anyone. If a new member - who isn't threatening to cut my head off - speaks to me than I'm happy to speak to them.
However, the way I read Babel's opening post is that we're not greeting them as they enter the room, and only greeting the people we know. That's called life and just about everyone everywhere does it, online or not *l*
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soka
Member
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# Posted: 7 Jun 2006 07:09
Reply
Having been specially mentioned I feel I have to make a post too (my first-ever on the forums).
I am aware that I didn't greet you very warmly, but as I had said when I entered myself (shortly before you entered) I only came in to ask Goose a question as I had seen him on the Personnel List. I didn't greet the other chatters very much too including you when you logged in as yourself, I was simply too tired to do it.
So much for my defense *shrugs* not that I think it would have been necessary.
Now for the topic in general.
Of course it is good to greet newcomers and talk to them, no doubt. It might encourage them to keep coming.
But there are also a few buts:
How often have I greeted people who never found out they had to hit receive? Can't even count that number.
How often have I greeted people who made clear in their first or second post that they were lamers? Dito.
No excuse not to greet the other newbies of course. But then you always have your suspicions from their handles. When someone enters twice within a few seconds and their second handle is Hello? then I suspect they didn't find out how to hit receive. If someone called Darth Lightsaber enters I think they might be a lamer and greet them a little less warmly ( I wouldn't want to encourage some lamer to come back or someone who is very close to violent simming just not violent enough).
But I think everyone is a bit different in who he greets and not greets, specially the second or third time the newbie enters.
If I have talked to someone before and his first, second and fourth question was about promotions then I might greet him a bit less warmly the next time as I expect him to ask about them again.
If someone has been simming all the time the first time I saw him (not violently, then he'd be a lamer) I might greet him a bit less warmly the next time too as I personally don't like RPGs a lot. On the other hand there are more than enough people in OTF who do like them and might greet the simmer very well.
What did I want to say with all that text? I don't know, maybe that it always depends on the newb too how much he gets greeted / talked to, but also on who is currently in the room.
But of course also on the situation. For example in the middle of a Trivia posts of new peeps often get lost because the chat is pretty fast (I know that wasn't the case yesterday) and certain people concentrate on the Trivia too. That is only an example, there are more situations like that.
That was my view of the situation, now you can all hate me 
Soka
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nicoll
Member
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# Posted: 7 Jun 2006 07:33
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I actually agree with AJ and Soka but just have one point to add.
Like it or not any conversation needs 2 people, "It takes two to tango". How many newbs come in and just expect other people to give them stuff to talk about? Nobody wants to talk to the guy that just keeps repeating "talk to me, everyone is ignoring me".
So next time you try one of your little experiments try leading with an interesting, humorous, witty, whimsical, or controversial statement and I bet you get much better response.
Surely everyone no matter how often they come to the chat room has the same rights to act however they please.
It's just common sense that you have to be able to make conversation or people will not talk to you, I don't spend much time talking to plants, walls or fish in real life either.
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babel
Member
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# Posted: 7 Jun 2006 09:06
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<!--QuoteBegin--polgara+June 07 2006,05:07--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (polgara @ June 07 2006,05:07)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->ummm.. actually the whole problem is that they dont get greeted eventhough they talk to others..loads of times everyone is so into eachother that they dont even notice the newbie..<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>Yep, this is one of the things I have noticed. Thanks for highlighting that, P <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smi.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--><br><br>As I said, I'm not pointing the finger, I jsut think that from time to time we need a little reminder. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smi.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--><br><br>And Soka, I was not having a go at you, I was singing your praises. <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/win.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->
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jj
Member
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# Posted: 7 Jun 2006 12:21
Reply
This is an issue that comes up periodically through the years because we all get comfy in our groups of people and forget. But it is the responsibility of all of us, those in leadership especially, to make the effort to welcome our newcomers! Yes, it takes two to tango and we've all been burned by lamers, but that doesan't mean we stop making the effort.
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tiamai
Member
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# Posted: 7 Jun 2006 15:20
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I hold my hands up, I am bad for it.
I will however say that when I joined, I butted into conversations as no one would talk to me except for the token higher ranker, who really was just doing it to get a promotion. Still.... I came back time and time again, so we cant be all that bad! 
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quincyw
Member
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# Posted: 7 Jun 2006 16:14
Reply
I try. The problem is, how to handle it? What we need is a checklist of things to say, ready answers to questions (ie a FAQ that we can rundown) and things like that.
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brady
Member
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# Posted: 7 Jun 2006 21:52
Reply
Outpost 10F Documentation, available from any handy drop-down menu around the place. *points up, under Help* If there is something that isn't in there or in other help files around the place that you think should be added, let me know.
The point is, essentially though, welcoming new members. If they feel welcome, they stay and grow up to be addicted to the outpost, eventually they'll marry another OTFer, spawn children, the children will grow up to register with the site and buy a member account, and the wheels will keep on spinning. Greet new members, try to engage them in conversation, and Man in Hat will love you.
B
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lzrman
Member
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# Posted: 7 Jun 2006 22:21
Reply
Addicted = No
Marry = No
Spawn Children = *l* that'll be the day
Brady , your not married yet  ! we need to hook you up to the hat ! to keep the wheels spinning
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polgara
Member
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# Posted: 8 Jun 2006 04:01
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<!--QuoteBegin--brady+June 07 2006,21:52--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (brady @ June 07 2006,21:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->The point is, essentially though, welcoming new members. If they feel welcome, they stay and grow up to be addicted to the outpost, eventually they'll marry another OTFer, spawn children, the children will grow up to register with the site and buy a member account, and the wheels will keep on spinning. Greet new members, try to engage them in conversation, and Man in Hat will love you.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>*looks suspicious*<br>What do you mean? <!--emo&:v--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/bro.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':v'><!--endemo--> <br>I was set up..now i get it <!--emo&:o--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/ann.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':o'><!--endemo--> <br>Q there'll be hell when you come home this weekend! <!--emo&:o--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/ann.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':o'><!--endemo-->
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goose
Member
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# Posted: 8 Jun 2006 19:22
Reply
Jeremy and AJ both make good points, I don't want to say much in case it bursts into flames later on.. However what I will say for and against is that everyone should be welcoming in the new chatters, however, if you are in the chat and cant say hello (on the phone, working, whatever) we shouldn't be frowned apon later on for not welcoming them..
That's just my two cents 
Note: I'm always at work when I log in, so if I dont say hello, you know why. =P
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gates
Member
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# Posted: 8 Jun 2006 21:05
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I always try to greet everyone when they enter the room. I'll chat with anyone who wants to chat with me, I've had lengthy conversations with new members and I've also been a few lamer's punchline. Either way, I'll still continue to greet everyone who enters while I'm logged in.
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candyshop
Member
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# Posted: 9 Jun 2006 13:01
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Actually, what I've noticed is that people do welcome and talk with the new registrants, it's those who have been members for more than a few weeks who are ignored.
Everyone notices the "This person has been promoted in the past week" star thingy and we tend to welcome more so that they'll stick around, and then they kind of fade into the background like socks and boxer shorts in a pile of laundry...
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polson
Member
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# Posted: 9 Jun 2006 20:58
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I think it's important to know that we can't generalize this all. Not everyone who enters is a lamer. Not everyone is an internet n00b who can't scroll. Not everyone is an attention seeking psycho.
At the same time, we can't always 100% of the time catch every new person with warm welcome fuzzies.
I think Jeremy's point is "keep your eyes open". Don't be afraid to initiate, don't be too lazy to interact. And I think it's valid.
And frankly, AJ has some excellent points as well. No matter where you go in life, you are going to have to accept that not everyone will instantaniously greet you and cater to your desire to be enteretained. Deal with it.
Personally, I am not that personable. I hate people. I am not nice to people who waste my time and intellegence. I will intentionally ignore the "talk to me" people and I will also intentionally ignore anyone I suspect of being a regular chatter in disguise (especially if they're playing "guess who I am"). Also, I really loathe having to say hello to every single person in the room, regardless of my relationship with them. I'm sorry. I just hate it. Call it immature. I call it a waste of chat space.
I also recognize that I am the only one who is responsible for how I interact with new chatters.
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monny
Member
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# Posted: 14 Jun 2006 06:10
Reply
TALK TO ME!!! 
Ok...so some of them (newbies) are annoying but still sometimes all they wanna do is talk about SW or ST while eveyone else is talking about personal stuff.
Some of them come in the chat in character (I don't mean the crazy sim-children) and just want to pretend they're in the cantina or TF. That's fine. I think every now again people just want to get away and I think we should try and indulge them a little without getting annoyed. "Ohh gawd, there's another weird simmer"
Just my 2 cents.....
I used to come in the cantina pretending to be a smuggler and we had a ball smuggling ewoks and such...hehehehehehe 
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lucient
Member
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# Posted: 14 Jun 2006 09:22
Reply
I'm not gonna pretend I am mister perfect as far as welcoming new members into OTF. I try my best to welcome people in, but sometimes - as has been pointed out - you may be in the middle of a conversation with 4 people and you just don't see them enter because there were enough posts to push it down out of the main part of the screen.
I'm not saying that it's an excuse for me to do this, or for anybody else for that matter. I just hope some people don't think the only people who should be doing this are the Welcoming Committee...they are here for more then that.
Luc
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citron
Member
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# Posted: 14 Jun 2006 11:08
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I'd like to just point out something, along these lines. The Welcoming Committee does not have a monopoly on greeting new members and helping new chatters.
In the past few days, I have seen one particular member of the Welcoming Committee jump on other officers when we try to help out a new chatter.. "Please don't interfere and let me do my job" was what he said, basically telling those of us helping to shut up and let him take over.
Every one of us is responsible for helping others.
We've all been the newbie who may not grasp the entire system in their first go and we all remember that first person who took time out to help.
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mustaine
Member
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# Posted: 20 Jun 2006 15:30
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I just tried your expirment as well Jeremy and the same thing happened. I even tried talking to peeps and joining in on the conversation and not one peep responded to me. I know I've been gone a long time and this is not the OTF I remember leaving 3 years ago. Peeps where pleasant and welcoming back in my day but now good lord I hope membership don't go down the drain
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polson
Member
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# Posted: 20 Jun 2006 17:11
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Well, I hate to disappoint, but every couple of years or so we go through cycles of people complaining about this exact thing. It's life. The chat is not collapsing in on itself, because it would have done so already, the last five or six times this got brought up.
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monny
Member
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# Posted: 21 Jun 2006 02:08
Reply
I think that one thing we all have to do is, just try and have fun.
Let's not get too serious one way or the other. This is after all recreation.
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deanna
Member
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# Posted: 21 Jun 2006 05:29
Reply
But...I'm not nice.
I don't wanna be nice.
I wanna sit under the local barroom table and plan out my evil plans...
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david1
Member
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# Posted: 28 Jun 2006 22:49
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Currently sitting in a chat-room wth 8 occupants.
A newcommer to otf entered... no one noticed the newcommer... and while i was chatting away to him, another otf'er butted in and was basically rude to the newcommer.
very welcoming ... 
XZ
Coding Operations DL - Special Operations
Direct Play Minion - Gaming
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