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lythria_2005
Member
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# Posted: 14 Jun 2006 17:18
Reply
I am just writing to ask a few questions about the departments. I have noticed that some of the departments are not looking to good, some quite bad. This isn't a dig at those who put alot of effort into these departments. This is a question to those who enable us to maintain them.
Why arn't Guilds getting the help that they need to organize and redesign?
Why are some departments late with updates etc.?
just a few questions about why the site isn;t being organized very well?
Sorry if i hav offended anyone.
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ajcardall
Member
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# Posted: 15 Jun 2006 04:18
Reply
Hey,
Running a department is an extremely testing, demanding and time consuming job. I know the Senior Managers are aided by a couple of very able deputies, but I'm sure every Senior Manager - and indeed Assistant Manager - will agree with me: it's still a very difficult job to do.
When you're running and leading a department, your every move is scrutinised and there are times when you're stuck in a Catch-22 situation: no matter what you do, people are put off. We managers have to make a lot of difficult decisions regarding staff, projects and the overall direction and image of the department.
It is often the case when you cannot win, no matter what choice you make, and there's always someone banging on your door demanding explanations and reasons for the decision you made. We have to deal with that, as well as trying our utmost to continue to run the department.
When you're in such a large department - like Entertainment, for example - it is very difficult to ensure everyone is doing their job correctly and efficiently. It's difficult - despite the levels of heirachy - to keep track on who is doing what, and how well they're doing it. Often things slip the mind, things that, in the overall picture, are rather trivial. Those outside the department may think the posting of updates is something really important, but trust me, when you have a million-and-one other things to contend with and deal with, you have to prioritise your workload. Sometimes this means getting a few things done a few days late.
Oh, I'll also point out everyone here also has a life outside of OTF which we also have to juggle.
Like the old saying goes: walk a mile in another man's shoes, and you're a mile away, with a new pair of shoes. It's very easy to point out mistakes and lapses, but very rarely are managers praised and thanked for doing a good job. I'd, personally, like to hear folks appreciate the hard work departmental staff - from minion to manager - put in day after day, when, at the end of the day, they can just say "no". A job in a department is not the same as a job in real life.
Try and appreciate the tremendous efforts departmental staff put into something they're under no obligation to do. Yes, we make mistakes, but do the mistakes and lapses outweigh the stuff we do get correct?
I think not.
Cheers,
CL7 AJ
Entertainment SM
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citron
Member
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# Posted: 15 Jun 2006 06:18
Reply
I agree completely with AJ above. However, ENT has never been a department in trouble like others have.
Guilds is in no need of new organization and design. Forgive me if I sound a little ticked off, but there is no problems within Guilds from an organization point of view. To have you accuse us of that is a bit upsetting and I'm wondering where you've come from in this assessment.
I would like to hear from you on exactly how Guilds is not running properly. I will be glad to explain to you or any other member what is happening and why.
Also, about your post in general. The question "Why are some departments late with updates etc.?" is so vague and could mean anything. Which department, which update? Having mentioned Guilds in the previous question, I'm led to believe it's about us, when in fact it may not be?
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ajcardall
Member
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# Posted: 15 Jun 2006 07:11
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<!--QuoteBegin--citron+June 15 2006,06:18--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (citron @ June 15 2006,06:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->I agree completely with AJ above. However, ENT has never been a department in trouble like others have.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>I'm afraid, my dearest Dawn, I must correct you here...<br><br>Around 2 years ago, ENT was in <i>real</i> trouble. I don't know if you recall the "Big Freeze"? Ask any long, long serving ENT person, or person related to ENT... but we were in desparate trouble <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/win.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo--> <br><br>Similarly, when Trivia events - ENT's biggest 'export' - were frozen for a few months, ENT began to slip slightly, and was kept up through the efforts of Dave (Plugboy) and many others.<br><br>And I suppose, to a lesser extent, around a year wgo when there were so many high-profile members of ENT leaving, resulting in a little disarray and instability. Ok, it wasn't life threatening by any stretch of the imagintion... *l*but we've had our ups and down as well <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/win.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->
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skevington
Member
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# Posted: 15 Jun 2006 07:29
Reply
Hmm... I do agree with all that AJ said myself. However, a lot goes on in departments that the public aren't neccesarily aware of. I, myself, have a handful of projects on the go for Artist Guild right now, but none of you would know about that, right?
The website redesign for Guilds is happening, no doubt due to Dawn's own immense effort in getting it done. But yes, there have been a lot of delays but that doesn't mean that things aren't moving forward and that progress isn't being made.
Though, not organised well? Having spent a lot of time poking around the net and joining other groups, and such, i'd say that the Outpost was the most organised group that i have ever come across. In fact, many other groups strive to achieve the level of organisation shown by OTF.
As for Guilds organisation, i can't speak for the other team leaders, only for my own team, though i certainly hope you're not saying that i'm not organised.  If so... why not join and see how things work for yourself? It is easy to make such judgements being an outsider looking in, though when an outsider you rarely get to see the full and complete picture. 
Dmitri
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sg8472
Member
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# Posted: 15 Jun 2006 11:09
Reply
I also agree with AJ. Speaking in terms of ENT, the hardest part, IMO, is organisation of the so many members. ENT is a large team, and we're always growing. Lately, a lot of people just seem to be joing to get the credit, without doing any actual work, so the majority of the work is left those who are active in a division/team/department. There's be times recently when I dismissed individuals, or gave them the opportunity to leave of their own accord. It seems lately that people join a department thinking it's a fast track to a higher rank, when in reality, you have to put in the work first.
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polson
Member
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# Posted: 15 Jun 2006 11:32
Reply
You mean, if I want to fast track I have to join ENT? I can't do that in ISA? 
*raises hand to speak* Just a throw out there, but hasn't the Guilds had the same set up since it was created? Most of the other departments have continual "upgrades" as it were to appearences and such. Maybe that's what Lythria meant. Nor do I think offense was intended.
At any rate, those working in the deparments do a ton of work. A ton. I can't imagine how much time some of these guys spend on this place. Look at Iain. He's the server. He can't ever leave. No matter how "fancy schmancy" the individual sites are or are not, no less work has gone into them. People have sacrificed their time and energy for this place. I appreciate it. Besides, the content is far more important than the appearences.
And as for news updates...that's all relative. Some news is no news and not worth wasting effort on. I tell you what, when the ISA Director is overthrown, (ie. tomorrow at 08:34), we'll put up an update.
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jayneway
Member
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# Posted: 15 Jun 2006 11:50
Reply
I say everyone should join Cloud City Construction no..wait......... 
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sg8472
Member
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# Posted: 15 Jun 2006 12:23
Reply
<!--QuoteBegin--polson+June 15 2006,11:32--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (polson @ June 15 2006,11:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->You mean, if I want to fast track I have to join ENT? I can't do that in ISA? <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/haw.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:P--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/ton.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':P'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>Nope, just that that seems to be be what relative n00bs to OTF think.... and some who should know better, to be honest!
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richard
Member
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# Posted: 15 Jun 2006 14:02
Reply
<!--QuoteBegin--ajcardall+June 15 2006,07:11--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (ajcardall @ June 15 2006,07:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin--><br>I'm afraid, my dearest Dawn, I must correct you here...<br><br>Around 2 years ago, ENT was in <i>real</i> trouble. I don't know if you recall the "Big Freeze"? Ask any long, long serving ENT person, or person related to ENT... but we were in desparate trouble <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/win.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br><br><br>And even before that ENT, well... Trivia mainly, went through a very bad time. Oldtimers like Mezoti can tell you all about it. I'm not sure if AJ was around at that time when the decision was made to release every single person working in Trivia. At that time the entire team (Star Trek, Star Wars, Special and Online) was run and maintained by 4 or 5 people who did everything, including keeping the weekly events going.
<br><br><!--EDIT|richard|June 15 2006,14:03-->
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lucient
Member
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# Posted: 15 Jun 2006 14:22
Reply
<!--QuoteBegin--ajcardall+June 15 2006,04:18--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (ajcardall @ June 15 2006,04:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hey,<br><br>Running a department is an extremely testing, demanding and time consuming job. I know the Senior Managers are aided by a couple of very able deputies, but I'm sure every Senior Manager - and indeed Assistant Manager - will agree with me: it's still a very difficult job to do.<br><br>When you're running and leading a department, your every move is scrutinised and there are times when you're stuck in a Catch-22 situation: no matter what you do, people are put off. We managers have to make a lot of difficult decisions regarding staff, projects and the overall direction and image of the department.<br><br>It is often the case when you cannot win, no matter what choice you make, and there's always someone banging on your door demanding explanations and reasons for the decision you made. We have to deal with that, as well as trying our utmost to continue to run the department.<br><br>When you're in such a large department - like Entertainment, for example - it is very difficult to ensure everyone is doing their job correctly and efficiently. It's difficult - despite the levels of heirachy - to keep track on who is doing what, and how well they're doing it. Often things slip the mind, things that, in the overall picture, are rather trivial. Those outside the department may think the posting of updates is something really important, but trust me, when you have a million-and-one other things to contend with and deal with, you have to prioritise your workload. Sometimes this means getting a few things done a few days late.<br><br>Oh, I'll also point out everyone here also has a life outside of OTF which we also have to juggle.<br><br>Like the old saying goes: walk a mile in another man's shoes, <s>and you're a mile away, with a new pair of shoes</s>. It's very easy to point out mistakes and lapses, but very rarely are managers praised and thanked for doing a good job. I'd, personally, like to hear folks appreciate the hard work departmental staff - from minion to manager - put in day after day, when, at the end of the day, they can just say "no". A job in a department is not the same as a job in real life.<br><br>Try and appreciate the tremendous efforts departmental staff put into something they're under no obligation to do. Yes, we make mistakes, but do the mistakes and lapses outweigh the stuff we <i>do</i> get correct?<br><br>I think not.<br><br>Cheers,<br>CL7 AJ<br>Entertainment SM<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>I think the biggest key to remember is that everybody also has a personal life that comes first. That is always stressed in departments. So yeah, maybe something doesn't get fixed as quickly as you like or something might take a bit longer to get updated or upgraded compared to how long you think it shoudl take.<br><br>But we all have our own lives to live...some of us are in college, or starting college. Some people are finishing high-school, moving, applying for jobs all of which MUST and are encouraged to come first.<br><br>Yes I know it would be nice if we could be so on top of things that the second some page at OTF became 3 weeks out of date we could update it automatically...or that on the first of every month (save for February because this would be total lunacy) that promotions and awards were on the updates board. It's something that just can't happen.
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lucient
Member
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# Posted: 15 Jun 2006 14:23
Reply
<!--QuoteBegin--jayneway+June 15 2006,11:50--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (jayneway @ June 15 2006,11:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->I say everyone should join Cloud City Construction <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/haw.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo--> no..wait......... <!--emo&:?--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/srp.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':?'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br><!--emo&:?--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/srp.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':?'><!--endemo--> i think we need to call the little men in the white coats for Jayne...and I'm not refering to the Oompa Loompas.<br><br>Although it would be funny to watch them come and take Jayne away *l*
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brady
Member
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# Posted: 15 Jun 2006 15:48
Reply
<!--QuoteBegin--jayneway+June 15 2006,11:50--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (jayneway @ June 15 2006,11:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->I say everyone should join Cloud City Construction <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/haw.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo--> no..wait......... <!--emo&:?--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/srp.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':?'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>Ohhh... CCC Construction. I remember that department. I was in it! *builds*<br><br>And yes, a whole lot more goes on in departments than is apparent to anyone on the outside.
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jayneway
Member
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# Posted: 15 Jun 2006 15:51
Reply
cloud city cantina construction did exiiiiist didn't iiiiiiiit? iiiit iiit iit (echo) (echo...)
I feel so old 
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jayneway
Member
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# Posted: 15 Jun 2006 15:58
Reply
those were fun times =)
that being the department that was interim head of after retiring from being chief engineer, then after V2 they merged the two and was back again where I started and had to do the whole "retiring" thing again =P
CCCC rox =) all should join =) *
* subject to posthumous terms and conditions written on the back of a bagel =)
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dommy
Member
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# Posted: 15 Jun 2006 17:12
Reply
Yeah well ...
Being in midecin and all you prolly invented some rebirth elexir or so that made it posible te retire twice
Since only old peaple retire 
*huggles*
DommY
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teekay
Member
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# Posted: 16 Jun 2006 09:43
Reply
<!--QuoteBegin--jayneway+June 15 2006,15:51--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (jayneway @ June 15 2006,15:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->I feel so old <!--emo&:(--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>Do you remember R&D?<br><br><br><br>... does anyone else here remember R&D?
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lucient
Member
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# Posted: 16 Jun 2006 10:48
Reply
<!--QuoteBegin--teekay+June 16 2006,09:43--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (teekay @ June 16 2006,09:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--jayneway+June 15 2006,15:51--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (jayneway @ June 15 2006,15:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->I feel so old <!--emo&:(--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>Do you remember R&D?<br><br><br><br>... does anyone else here remember R&D?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>I remember R&D...although I think when I registered here R&D was coming to an dend....I think
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polson
Member
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# Posted: 16 Jun 2006 17:03
Reply
I think I applied to R&D five or six times...
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brady
Member
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# Posted: 17 Jun 2006 00:15
Reply
*l* R&D was my first department! Henri was my first boss. Aww..
On another note, does anyone remember RoKanna? She was a firey lass. I know she caused a few problem when she left, but she was a pretty awesome chick. I wish I was still in contact with her. I must've talked to her almost every day on ICQ for a year or so. It's weird how someone can be such a big part of your life one day, and a few years down the track you don't even know how to contact them. Like friends from school.
Sus, remember Keres Lethe and Dr. McKenna? *l* Oh my...
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teekay
Member
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# Posted: 17 Jun 2006 02:56
Reply
<!--QuoteBegin--polson+June 16 2006,17:03--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (polson @ June 16 2006,17:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think I applied to R&D five or six times...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>I hope that wasn't during my "reign", because then I would feel rather ashamed right now!
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teekay
Member
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# Posted: 17 Jun 2006 03:05
Reply
<!--QuoteBegin--brady+June 17 2006,00:15--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (brady @ June 17 2006,00:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->On another note, does anyone remember RoKanna? <br>(...)<br>Sus, remember Keres Lethe and Dr. McKenna? *l* Oh my...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>Yes, yes and yes. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smi.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--><br><br>Gods, we're old farts, are we not? <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/haw.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo-->
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ajcardall
Member
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# Posted: 17 Jun 2006 05:46
Reply
I love how conversations quickly jump from one to another...
I always used to think I was pretty 'old', OTF wise... now I realise I'm still middle-aged, at best Thanks, guys!
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polson
Member
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# Posted: 17 Jun 2006 08:04
Reply
Teek.... Indeed...I applied at least three times during your reign. 
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teekay
Member
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# Posted: 17 Jun 2006 10:42
Reply
Pols - I'm so sorry.
I was a different person then!
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polson
Member
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# Posted: 17 Jun 2006 11:55
Reply
Teek...*huggles* Think nothing of it. I don't. You didn't know me, I didn't know you. Nothing wrong with that.
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ajcardall
Member
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# Posted: 18 Jun 2006 08:12
Reply
At the risk of switching back to the original topic, I'm curious as to what the outside impression of ENT is. Being in the department, I obviously can't provide an independent view on how well ENT is doing, and what the general opinion of us lot is.
I hope we're not seen to be... "inefficient", for want of a better word etc.
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polson
Member
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# Posted: 18 Jun 2006 08:21
Reply
I'm a little wishy washy on what Entertainment does and does not do. I notice names of people on projects around here, people whom I know to be in ENT, but are also in other departments so I'm not sure really if it's an ENT project. I've gone through the ENT site a few times, but a lot of the things are under names that aren't their 'common' name, ie. "The Entertainment Notwerk"...seriously, it took me a good ten minutes to figure out that was the Notwerk. I was searching up and and down the list for "Notwerk" having no idea it had a differing title. I mean...if I'm looking for it on the Entertainment site...wouldn't it seem a little redundent to call it the Entertainment Notwerk? These were my thoughts, amongst other things, as I blindly stumbled through cyberspace.
That, and I think ENT has their hands in SO many different things, it's hard to tell when ENT begins and another department ends. Which goes to say how crucial ENT is around here, but it does make me wonder how the site has not collapsed in on itself yet.
I'm not really sure I said anything in all that. Feel free to ignore me if I make no sense.
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crewmannick
Member
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# Posted: 18 Jun 2006 21:03
Reply
<!--QuoteBegin--polson+June 18 2006,08:21--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (polson @ June 18 2006,08:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->I've gone through the ENT site a few times, but a lot of the things are under names that aren't their 'common' name, ie. "The Entertainment Notwerk"...seriously, it took me a good ten minutes to figure out that was the Notwerk. I was searching up and and down the list for "Notwerk" having no idea it had a differing title. I mean...if I'm looking for it on the Entertainment site...wouldn't it seem a little redundent to call it the Entertainment Notwerk? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>I believe you're referring to the Exitainment Notwerk, in which case you may have just read the project name incorrectly...because like you said, it would be redundant (and confusing) to call it the Entertainment Notwerk...<br><br>As a member of ENT, it is somewhat difficult to remain impartial and try to explain things without sounding like I'm speaking in favor of the department, but one attraction factor of Entertainment (for me, anyway) was that it was more than just one specific thing; not <I>just</i> trivia or <i>just</i> simming. One of the reasons it may seem like we have out hands in so many things is because of the changes ENT has undergone in the past year or so. There have been many new division and team homepages introduced, as well as new projects being added, so it's entirely possible that someone who isn't in the department could get very lost. <br><br>But, if I like to know what other departments are up to, I usually just use the dynamic roster and click on a department...<br><br><font color="gold">*shrugs*<font color="white"> Just my two cents worth...<br><br>~Alex
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david1
Member
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# Posted: 19 Jun 2006 05:37
Reply
<!--QuoteBegin--polson+June 18 2006,08:21--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (polson @ June 18 2006,08:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->That, and I think ENT has their hands in SO many different things, it's hard to tell when ENT begins and another department ends. Which goes to say how crucial ENT is around here, but it does make me wonder how the site has not collapsed in on itself yet.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br><font color="red"><b><i>Should I regret that im in charge of the Entertainment Website Re-design <!--emo&:?--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/srp.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':?'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:(--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('><!--endemo--></i></b></font><br><br><b>XZ</b> - <i>Coding Operations DL - Special Operations</i>
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