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Message |
david1
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2006 08:57
Reply
This is an email i recieved earlier:
I'm sure that your comment had nothing to do with me, but I felt I should say that OTF isn't what made you lose your friends. Sometimes it's your attitude. Especially when you go on and on about how you dislike OTF and ISA... then you jump at the chance to join them at the first chance. It's fairly hypocritical, and I know for a fact that a lot of people feel that way about you. You were really vocal in calling the ISA bad, etc, and now you're one of them. So if you find people are not talking to you, now you know why.
Since all those "freinds" decided to hate me without talking to me, and understanding why i made the choice, heres why.
Yes i do Hate ISA up to a point, however, they're just doing their job. The reason I accepted to Join was to find out how things worked, understand their thinking, and secondly, to hopefully help change things from the inside, because a lot of people dont like the way ISA run things, but all people do is complain and complain. Yes i have been vocal in the chatroom about hating the way ISA does this'n'that, i admit, however to put it another way, would you rarther ISA be full of people who bend the rules for their freinds, and cause all these "hate" issues, or be full of people who follow the rules, understand them, and treat everyone the same, and do a good job?, me id prefer the later, hence why i accepted to join.
Anyway since most my freinds have made me an outcast, Ill let you otf'ers decide if i should go. Since im being judged by people who dont listen or speak to me, ill let that continue.
Apologies for posting this here, but i feel i have no other choice left. Im not staying in a community which has rejected me. And if this thread gets locked or deleted then ill understand.
XZ
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skevington
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2006 09:18
Reply
Getting into ISA is not easy. The department doesn't take applications because only the most trusted and exemplary of officers get into it. I would have hoped that people would be supportive, that you had done well enough to be considered above your peers for such a thing...
I know it is not always easy, but try not to let what others say get to you. You got into ISA because you worked hard. If people can not celebrate you for that, yet choose to criticise and ridicule, then they are surely not worth bothering with.
If you ever want to talk about this or whatever on msn, just feel free to bug me.
Dmitri
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babel
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2006 09:19
Reply
David, man, talk to me on MSN please about what's on your mind and we'll see if we can't sort it out. The offer's there if you want it. OTF can ill afford to lose people like you.
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eagle
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2006 09:36
Reply
The ISA is good. It's there to make sick people go away, stop hackers, etc.
The ISA is made up of people. People make mistakes, act petty, selfish, irrationally, play favorites, etc. But you're a person too, right? ;o)
It's important for those not in the department to realize that just because they may have personal disagreements (or just plain dislike) certain people within the ISA, that doesn't make the department so mass evil entity. The flip side of that, of course, is for those within the ISA (et al) to remember that their people are not only ISA deputies but people, and capable of making those mistakes and misjudgements.
The first step to solving most any problem is to take a step back and look at yourself. The second is to hope the other guy is doing the same thing.
~Eagle~
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lythria_2005
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2006 10:46
Reply
<!--QuoteBegin--david1+Sep. 04 2006,08:57--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (david1 @ Sep. 04 2006,08:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Since all those "freinds" decided to <b>hate</b> me without talking to me, and understanding why i made the choice, heres why.<br><br>Yes i do Hate ISA up to a point, however, they're just doing their job. The reason I accepted to Join was to find out how things worked, understand their thinking, and secondly, to hopefully help change things from the inside, because a lot of people dont like the way ISA run things, but all people do is complain and complain. Yes i have been vocal in the chatroom about hating the way ISA does this'n'that, i admit, however to put it another way, would you rarther ISA be full of people who bend the rules for their freinds, and cause all these "hate" issues, <b>or</b> be full of people who follow the rules, understand them, and treat everyone the same, and do a good job?, me id prefer the later, hence why i accepted to join.<br><br>Anyway since most my <s>freinds</s> have made me an outcast, Ill let you otf'ers decide if i should go. Since im being judged by people who dont listen or speak to me, ill let that continue.<br><br><b><i>Apologies for posting this here, but i feel i have no other choice left. Im not staying in a community which has rejected me. And if this thread gets locked or deleted then ill understand.</b></i><br><br><b>XZ</b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>Whoever sent that email was not speaking on behalf of <b>everyone</b> at OTF, and frankly, whoever sent it should appologise to you, as I believe that the wording of the email made it borderline on <i>harrasment</i>...I do not see that the email was justiied in any way, shape or form, due to the fact that David has done nothing <i>overly</i> wrong...and whoever sent it, in my honest opinion, shouldn't and had no right to raise the topic in the first place...and if they wanted to, they should have aproached David in a less abusive manner...you have obviously offended David, and upset him...that is nto soemthing to be proud of...<br><br>David,<br><br>Whoever sent that email was not speaking on behalf of everyone of your friends at OTF, and, unless they were conspiring with others, they should not have used the term "friends"...so pay no attention to it...<br><br>But...<br><br>I do not believe that you have any right to say openly that you are in ISA to "change" it...I have seen the way both you, and other members of the ISA handle "situations"...and have been on the recieving end of the ISA once or twice...and to be honest...you dealt with things in exactly the same way as they do...<br><br>secondly, and this is not only to you, but I do not believe that openly expressing a dislike for the ISA is proper either...If you have a complaint about it...you should go to the relevant parties and inform them, instead of shouting it out in chat...doing that completely underminds the principle on which the ISA opperates, and if you, as a senior officer, do not show respect to them, new members will not be inclined to do so either...<i>Set a good example for us all...</i><br><br>And you are not an Outcast at all...some people may show slight displeasure with certain things you say...some people may dislike you...hell...there <i>are</I> people who dislike me here at OTF, but that does not mean we cannot "get along" for the sake of OTF...If every member showed the same disregard for each other as the above does to ISA, OTF would not exist...<br><br>I think this matter, in the end, can only be resolved by the person who sent the email and David, but bringing it to the forum, and raising it as a public discussion...may not have been appropriate...
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bria
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2006 11:19
Reply
Firstly, Eagle is wise. *nods, hugs him*
And it might be a good thing that this was raised in the forums.
The whole "ISA-against-the-rest" idea that's been spreading around lately is plain silly. The ISA is there to keep the peace in chat - it seems slightly beside the point if everyone sees us as "The Enemy" or something, doesn't it? I mean, I don't necessarily approve of everyone's behaviour and I'm pretty sure I've made my share of mistakes... but lately, it seems to me that OTF has become more and more bogged down in politics, and people are taking sides in what is almost a feud. When words like "hate" start cropping up in a chatroom, things must've got pretty bad...
Personally, XZ, I think if anything OTF needs more people like you. Beating against the system from the outside just tends to make things worse. So kudos to you for your intentions to change things from the inside! And if you want to talk about this any further, I'm here... details are in my doss, if you don't have them already. 
Bria
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demonvamp
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2006 11:48
Reply
As an ex-ISAer I can only say that I've never met a nicer bunch of hard-working, often put-upon folk in my life. They try incredibly hard to keep this chat available for all chatters and- as people may have mentioned- if they make mistakes or you don't like the way they handle something then remember they, and you are only human.
So the ISA is effectively a closed club, so maybe that engenders an instant hatred in some people- which is jealousy if you really think about it- but honestly, folks, it's that way for very good reasons because I imagine everyone would apply
I like the fact XZ joined to get to know things better, because there's that saying about walking a mile in another man's shoes, right? Don't knock him for it, it shows common sense and an open nature. If you think it's going against principles then that's your opinion, but let that get in the way of a friendship and it's a little depressing.
Give ISA a break, please, and don't stone XZ for what is a personal choice made for his own excellent reasons.
QD
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lythria_2005
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2006 11:58
Reply
I do not want my own personal opinions to get in the way of mine and David's friendship...lol...
I expect to see him down here soon...(get your ass to Llandod man...:O...)...
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kady
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2006 12:03
Reply
That doesn't sound like harassment. It sounds like a friend who feels hurt and dejected. And perhaps airing this publicly wasn't the best decision to make. Did you first try to go to this person and resolve your disagreement?
I'm not ISA. I'm not allowed to be ISA for reasons that I refuse to air in a public forum. People may think whatever they want of me. Maybe I'm just the lunatic who hangs around online, creates false identities, falsifies truths, and then preys on innocent people. Or maybe, I'm the girl without a life who spends too much time online (no, wait...that one is true  ) Trust me, I've been made to feel like I am on more than one occasion. I understand why people have difficulties trusting people they meet online-- anyone can lie about anything. But, sometimes you just have to have trust in people. That's something we, as a species on whole...not just us Americans....need to work on.
OTF and ISA, like everything else in life, is all about politics. Who hasn't become an attorney because they wanted to change the system? Or who hasn't become a congressperson or mayor or senator because they saw a basic good in the system and wanted to fight to preserve it against the corruption they saw overtaking it? Isn't the entire premise of the U.S. Presidential Campaigns based on who can make America stronger and more unified? (Sorry, I'm being closed minded...there are many cultures out there that I am leaving out of this, but I have a feeling you'll see my point) Don't we all want to change the corrupt and make something we believe in better? Come on, people, this isn't rocket science.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with joining the ISA to help strengthen the system and erradicate the corruption within it. And you are always going to get negative feedback from someone. Everyone in life has fans and critics.
I've dealt with crisis escalation in my real life, professionally, more than probably any other person who ever clicked their mouse within the pages of Outpost 10F. I've been there when angry teenagers have cussed me out, threw things at me, threatened me bodily harm, etc. I am probably one of the few people who have also walked away unharmed. Why? Because I took the time to listen to them and try to understand them. That's all they ever really wanted. You'd be surprised by what a minute of your time can do for a person. Same principle applies to online issues.
You know, for those who doubt my ability to deal with crisis situations, maybe I should show you some of my training documents and certificates of achievement. And for those who doubt my trustworthiness, maybe I should point out the fact that in order to be hired by my agency, you had to pass a background check conducted by the FBI. Yes, during orientation we all had to make a trip to the FBI headquarters and go through the entire screening process.
I know I shouldn't be doing this. It's petty and it will sound like I'm bragging. But, just because I may be potentially deemed a problem within the OTF walls, doesn't make me a problem in real life. My application with the United States FBI was just accepted and I have been scheduled to report for an interview. All I can say is, if you are deemed a troublemaker, it doesn't mean you are one. It just means that someone somewhere along your travels couldn't figure out what to do with you, and so you got stuck with a label. If you choose to accept this label, you're allowing that person to strip you of your power and limit you. Don't you think it's about time you showed the world that you're no longer what someone perceived you as? Do you really think that person knew you better than you knew yourself?
Define yourself, before someone else defines you.
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kady
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2006 12:08
Reply
<!--QuoteBegin--bria+Sep. 04 2006,11:19--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (bria @ Sep. 04 2006,11:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin--><font color=#9999ff>Firstly, Eagle is wise. <font color=gold>*nods, hugs him*</font><br><br>And it might be a good thing that this was raised in the forums.<br><br>The whole "ISA-against-the-rest" idea that's been spreading around lately is plain silly. The ISA is there to keep the peace in chat - it seems slightly beside the point if everyone sees us as "The Enemy" or something, doesn't it? I mean, I don't necessarily approve of everyone's behaviour and I'm pretty sure I've made my share of mistakes... but lately, it seems to me that OTF has become more and more bogged down in politics, and people are taking sides in what is almost a feud. When words like "hate" start cropping up in a chatroom, things must've got pretty bad...<br><br>Personally, XZ, I think if anything OTF needs more people like you. Beating against the system from the outside just tends to make things worse. So kudos to you for your intentions to change things from the inside! And if you want to talk about this any further, I'm here... details are in my doss, if you don't have them already. <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/win.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo--><br><br>Bria</font><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>I've always found Bria to be brilliant. It kind of irritates me the way she can always come up with such profound comments and have everyone reveling in her words. <br><br>And just in case anyone wondered, "Irritates= I adore it! <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/win.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->"
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lythria_2005
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2006 12:11
Reply
...some very strong points there, Kady...and I agree with many of them...
...welldone...and I fully agree wiht one key point...define yourself, before somebody else does...I believe Zild may have me on the "troublemaker" list for a reason I will not discuss publically...
...all I am saying is that publically underminding the ISA's authority is not the wisest of decisions...if this topic had been brought forward in a less personal situation...thne maybe my opinion would be different...
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eagle
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2006 14:54
Reply
<!--QuoteBegin--lythria_2005+Sep. 04 2006,12:11--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (lythria_2005 @ Sep. 04 2006,12:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->...all I am saying is that publically underminding the ISA's authority is not the wisest of decisions...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>Nothing was undermined, your point is moot. <br><br>*hugs Briiia* She and Kady did a fine job with your previous points, so I'll leave those as they are. <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/win.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo--><br><br>~Eagle~
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quincyw
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2006 15:02
Reply
Dear XZ
I will first of all note that I don't know you and you don't know me and while yes, I do lurk in excess of around four hours without once speaking, only entering and exiting, that doesn't mean I don't pay attention to the chat.
There was this one incident, late at night (my local time) where you'd come in, effectively being a lamer. I still have the chatsave(s), but don't recall offhand the incident. And under the new ISA etiquette rules, you had to defer to your nearest ranking ISA to handle the incident.
I thought to myself this guy's a CL5. He should know better than to effectively act like a lamer.
Yeah, you've got issues with ISA. You know what? So do most of us.
Most of the people in this chat are in school, with several assignments due and then there are others who are married, with kids, paying off credit cards and mobile/cell phones and mortgages. I'm part of that latter category, although I'm not so emburdened.
What do I do on my days off? I come here, the same chat I've been coming to for the last eight years.
No society is perfect. Even in a utopian chat such as 10F, there will still be rules and enforcers of the rules. Why? So the rest of us can enjoy the utopia without fear.
Personally speaking, I hope you stay. No, I really do, despite what I'm going to say now.
When you signed up, you agreed to obey the PDs, even if you don't necessarily agree to their wisdom. You mention you want to stay and do a good job. Well, think about why you take on the responsibility you take on, being a member of a department, putting in all those hours and for what?
You think about what 10F is to you, what you want to put back.
And then you remember that everyone else, even ISA, have those exact same values, but in different ways.
As you all know, or some of you do, the old me. Blame is easy to cast. Someone else screws up, you start pointing the finger. Blame everyone! Everybody screws up! Blame blame blame! Well guess what? With time, I saw that it was time to stop blaming others. That it wasn't their fault, their stupidity.
It's responsibility.
I took responsibility for my actions, I found most of the parties involved (in my case) and tried making peace with them.
Look, XZ, you want ISA to treat people fairly, with respect and a bit of compassion? Fine, you have to as well.
I don't condone ISA or their actions. But nor are you the innocent party in all this.
I hope you stay, sir and continue to contribute. But if you don't, there are plenty of other places to go to and there is the exit.
Regards
Quincy
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lythria_2005
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2006 15:48
Reply
<!--QuoteBegin--eagle+Sep. 04 2006,14:54--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (eagle @ Sep. 04 2006,14:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Nothing was undermined, your point is moot. <br><br>*hugs Briiia* She and Kady did a fine job with your previous points, so I'll leave those as they are. <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/win.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo--><br><br>~Eagle~<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>Eagle,<br><br>you should notice that Bria and Kady were both diplomatic...and put counter points forward for me to consider...which is the "adult" way of doing things...you just went "no - you are a fool - shut up!"...and that offended me...<br><br>but...I am not oging to dwell on it...<br><br>I have put my point across...and I am sure there are some that agree with me...but I do now think that maybe discussing this thing should be allowed to continue...I also believe that the original manner it was brought up was inappropriate...and I know that there are people who agree with me...<br><br>Damo
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zildjian
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2006 16:30
Reply
Ohh come on guys. Do we have to start ridiculing one another? People can point fingers all they want, but the true fact is that all these very vague suggestions of a corrupt ISA have no back-bone to them at all. We do not operate on our own agenda by any means.
As the leader of the ISA Department, I receive more hate and ridicule then most folks could begin to imagine. And all for trying to simply keep OTF a fun place to come to without having to be harassed for something stupid, or sworn at or any of the other unsavory things you may encounter in other chats like Yahoo, for example.
The ISA are servants to the chatrooms. We're also what you make us. My inbox receives very little in the form of any type of complaints that we're not doing our job, or that we're not doing it right. If someone disagrees with the way something is handled, report it! Give us a chance to do something about it before pointing the finger at us. That isn't fair. And it could be said that those people are letting the ISA fail their standards on their own accord.
We're here to serve you all, not limit your experiances.  And we do this while receiving very little support and thanks from any direction. Usually the opposite, but we're kinda used to rejection. It comes with the job. Most people don't like police driving down their street either, untill they're coming to help them. Such is life.
All I can say is thank you to all past and present ISA officers, for being so dedicated that they helped to protect the chatrooms despite being disliked for your efforts, by so many people.
Here's how I feel about it after five years. Those that wish to not speak to me, or be my friend cause I'm in the ISA; it's your loss.  But, I'm still here if you need me.
Zild
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citron
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2006 16:39
Reply
<!--QuoteBegin--lythria_2005+Sep. 04 2006,15:48--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (lythria_2005 @ Sep. 04 2006,15:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->you just went "no - you are a fool - shut up!"...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>Just so you know, a moot point doesn't mean "shut up, fool". Look it up. <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/win.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->
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eagle
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2006 16:40
Reply
<!--QuoteBegin--lythria_2005+Sep. 04 2006,15:48--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (lythria_2005 @ Sep. 04 2006,15:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Eagle,<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>Hello! =)<br><br><!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->you should notice that Bria and Kady were both diplomatic.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>Yes, they're sweet girls like that. Briiiiiia's been awarded Most Diplomatic every year at the anniversary since she's been in the ISA. Quite an achievement!<br><br><!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->..and put counter points forward for me to consider...which is the "adult" way of doing things...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>Now you're just being rude. <br><br><!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->you just went "no - you are a fool - shut up!"...and that offended me...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>Really, is that what I said? Because from my recollection (not that recollecting is really necessary, since it's right up there in blue and white) I corrected a rather misinformed statement you made. <br><br>I'm not really sure where in this thread you feel that the ISA's authority was undermined, so I'm not even sure how to go about refuting your point beyond saying that it wasn't, hence, I said it. You also made other points I disagree with, but I felt no need to refute them for the second or third time, but merely to express my agreement with those who had. <br><br>I did not at any point however say that your points were utter bullocks or that you're an idiot. <i>That</i> would have been disrespectful, but that's not what I did. <br><br><!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->but...I am not oging to dwell on it...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>Yes, you've made that very clear. <br><br><!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Damo<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>Captain Eagle<br>Chief Engineer<br>ISA-ST, retired<br>ISA-Intell, retired<font color=#002836>
<br><br><!--EDIT|eagle|Sep. 04 2006,20:29-->
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kady
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2006 16:42
Reply
<!--QuoteBegin--lythria_2005+Sep. 04 2006,15:48--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (lythria_2005 @ Sep. 04 2006,15:48)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->you should notice that Bria and Kady were both diplomatic...and put counter points forward for me to consider...which is the "adult" way of doing things...you just went "no - you are a fool - shut up!"...and that offended me...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>*gasps* I'm an adult?! <!--emo&:?--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/srp.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':?'><!--endemo--> Since when? I'm offended! <!--emo&:o--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/ann.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':o'><!--endemo-->
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kady
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2006 17:01
Reply
<!--QuoteBegin--eagle+Sep. 04 2006,14:54--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (eagle @ Sep. 04 2006,14:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--lythria_2005+Sep. 04 2006,12:11--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (lythria_2005 @ Sep. 04 2006,12:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->...all I am saying is that publically underminding the ISA's authority is not the wisest of decisions...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>Nothing was undermined, your point is moot. <br><br>*hugs Briiia* She and Kady did a fine job with your previous points, so I'll leave those as they are. <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/win.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo--><br><br>~Eagle~<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>Yay! I did a fine job! <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/haw.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo--> <br><br>But you ssooooo know, that if I get hired by the FBI *crosses fingers* and there's a crisis in OTF and all ISA people write, "Please leave this to ISA officers to handle." I'm going to pull out my ID and write, "But I'm with the FBI."<br><br>I can't do anything if the lamers are outside of the United States jurisdiction, though. I'm just going to have to sit back and let the real ISA officers handle everything. <!--emo&:(--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('><!--endemo--><br><br>(Can you blame a woman for dreaming?)
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daecrist
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2006 17:38
Reply
I think it's time to repeat the OTF mantra.
Sit down in your computer chairs, cross your legs, light some candles if that helps put you in the mood, and repeat after me:
"It's only a chat room."
Just repeat that to yourself until you feel better. OTF is a hobby. Sometimes people burn out on hobbies and need to take a break. Just remember that it's about having a good time amongst friends here.
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lzrman
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2006 18:10
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I think this whole topic is all wrong............
Being a former intell patron, I know that they are doing there job right. Sometimes there is a few people who side, but overall they are doing a well done job.
Lzrman
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kady
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2006 19:00
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<!--QuoteBegin--zildjian+Sep. 04 2006,16:30--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (zildjian @ Sep. 04 2006,16:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ohh come on guys. Do we have to start ridiculing one another? People can point fingers all they want, but the true fact is that all these very vague suggestions of a corrupt ISA have no back-bone to them at all. We do not operate on our own agenda by any means. <br><br> As the leader of the ISA Department, I receive more hate and ridicule then most folks could begin to imagine. And all for trying to simply keep OTF a fun place to come to without having to be harassed for something stupid, or sworn at or any of the other unsavory things you may encounter in other chats like Yahoo, for example.<br><br> The ISA are servants to the chatrooms. We're also what you make us. My inbox receives very little in the form of any type of complaints that we're not doing our job, or that we're not doing it right. If someone disagrees with the way something is handled, <i>report</i> it! Give us a chance to do something about it before pointing the finger at us. That isn't fair. And it could be said that those people are letting the ISA fail their standards on their own accord.<br><br> We're here to serve you all, not limit your experiances. <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/haw.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo--> And we do this while receiving very little support and thanks from any direction. Usually the opposite, but we're kinda used to rejection. It comes with the job. Most people don't like police driving down their street either, untill they're coming to help them. Such is life. <br><br> All I can say is thank you to all past and present ISA officers, for being so dedicated that they helped to protect the chatrooms despite being disliked for your efforts, by so many people.<br><br> Here's how I feel about it after five years. Those that wish to not speak to me, or be my friend cause I'm in the ISA; it's your loss. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smi.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--> But, I'm still here if you need me.<br><br>Zild<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>Zild, you must have never sat through countless boring political debates where you either want to fall asleep or poke your eyes out with a pencil. Anytime you are a leader of an organization which people are passionate about, you are going to hear (or read) debates such as this. <br><br><br>One becomes the head of a department because he is passionate about his work and decides to devote his effort and energy into a cause he deems worthy....even if there is no recompensation other than contributing to something he believes in. I am hoping that you chose to head ISA because it was something you believed in....not because you thought that it would make you popular or because it was something "to do" just because you were "bored." <br><br>Anyone who is in the public eye is the subject of ridicule and scorn...whether or not you deserve it. You will always have supporters and you will always have critics. Your supporters are what keep you driving on...but never underestimate your critics, because they are also vital to everything in life that you do. <br><br><b>"We do not operate on our own agenda by any means. "</b><br><br>These were the famous last words of many politicians. Should we have a history lesson? <!--emo&:?--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/srp.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':?'><!--endemo--><br><br><b>"As the leader of the ISA Department, I receive more hate and ridicule then most folks could begin to imagine. And all for trying to simply keep OTF a fun place to come to without having to be harassed for something stupid, or sworn at or any of the other unsavory things you may encounter in other chats like Yahoo, for example."</b><br><br>Yes, but, you see....this isn't Yahoo, or any other chats. This is <i>the Outpost</i>. We expect more. We are more. Striving to only be better than chats that are below par isn't good enough. You have a huge network of chatters who pour their hearts and souls into OTF. What are you doing to answer their demands?<br><br>And again, I point out, that anyone in the public eye is subject to ridicule. It doesn't make it right. But, you also have to distinguish between those who are only nuisances and those who are pushing because they want and expect the system to change to become better. You'll notice the latter because they are the ones who care about what becomes of the outpost.<br><br><b>"Here's how I feel about it after five years. Those that wish to not speak to me, or be my friend cause I'm in the ISA; it's your loss. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smi.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--> But, I'm still here if you need me." </b><br><br>Zild, this isn't personal. I can't tiptoe around the issues for fear of hurting you or offending you. This is political. Your people are speaking. By not addresing their concerns, you are doing them a great disservice. These are the people who made OTF...without them, you'd have no one to police. Never disrespect them..and never underestimate them. Listen to their concerns and prove to them that "the powers that be" didn't make a mistake by appointing you as ISA department head.
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polson
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2006 19:02
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*raises hand* I'd just like to say some things here.
First off, Kady - to my knowledge, you are not a blacklisted member of OTF as you seem to think you are. I've never seen your name on any troublemaker list or anything the like, you're fun, you're strong, and like any of us you make good and bad decisions. That doesn't make you the arch enemy of the ISA. *wink*
Keep in mind that I have done my fair share of trouble making within OTF. I've wedgied a guest chatter during his live chat interview. I've held serious hate riots against Admiral Adolf. I've spoken my mind in chat regardless of consequence. I've even just been an all around ass. I was always under the assumption that I was blacklisted, as Kady sees herself, and I've always felt strongly about the way people like me are dealt with. In a thousand years I didn't believe they would take me seriously and make me ISA, but sooner or later cracks are exposed (cracks named Iain).
I joined ISA not to change it but to make sure that one little piece of it, namely myself, operated in a fashion appropriate to the chat's security operations. That's right, security. We're not here to counsel you in your issues. Of course, we're happy to talk about things, or chat in msn if that's needed to see what exactly is up, but that's not always an option, and we're not qualified counselors. Our main priority is to protect the denizens of OTF and we do nobody any favors by letting you disrespect others or yourselves.
I would much rather find out why my friend is acting up in chat than shoot them out. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. And sometimes, when I see a senior officer out of line and I don't know how to handle it, I chatsave it, send it to the ISA director and HE deals with it. You might sit and chat and think "Polson favors that person, she didn't shoot them like she did me when I was telling everyone to *insert nasty words*." I want to emphasis that just because you didn't see someone get cuffed for their behavior doesn't mean it didn't happen. Part of being a senior officer is the privalege of getting talked to behind the scenes instead of publicly. ISA should not have to email you everytime you witness direspect and let you know how it was handled. Trust that they're dealing with it, and if you can't trust them, then email them with your concerns. Ranting about it in chat will only get you in trouble. And frankly, the ISA doesn't owe it to you to tell you who got punished for what, why and how.
Grow up. If you don't want to get told "no" then stop living in this universe. It's going to happen no matter where you go and more than likely it's not about YOU so much as it is about something else.
That all sounded rather mean, didn't it. I'm a bit grouchy and I have to potty, which makes me less diplomatic. Take not it personally.
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kady
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2006 19:10
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Polson, I'm in a very argumentative mood. I was prepared for a good debate. However, there is nothing I can argue here. I'll always be a big fan. You're one of those ISA people who clearly care about what you are doing and do it for the right reasons. Bravo!
You're almost missing the point.  I admire the troublemakers...I'll always route for the underdogs. I enjoy the people who feel they have to go out of their way to be heard because no one is listening to them.
And I really enjoyed being called a strong woman!
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polson
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2006 19:16
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Kady, you know I'm a big fan too. *l* And no matter how ISA I am, I'm still Polson. You can't just erase Polsonness. This stuff stains.
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zildjian
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2006 20:24
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<!--QuoteBegin--kady+Sep. 04 2006,19:00--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (kady @ Sep. 04 2006,19:00)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Zild, you must have never sat through countless boring political debates where you either want to fall asleep or poke your eyes out with a pencil. Anytime you are a leader of an organization which people are passionate about, you are going to hear (or read) debates such as this.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br><br>Nope, I wouldn't beleive in what I was doing if I thought it boring enough to violently sim with a pencil. I take things more seriously then that. <br><br><!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->One becomes the head of a department because he is passionate about his work and decides to devote his effort and energy into a cause he deems worthy....even if there is no recompensation other than contributing to something he believes in. I am hoping that you chose to head ISA because it was something you believed in....not because you thought that it would make you popular or because it was something "to do" just because you were "bored."<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br><br>Do you think I'd have endured all this for this long if I was merely bored? <br><br><!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Anyone who is in the public eye is the subject of ridicule and scorn...whether or not you deserve it. You will always have supporters and you will always have critics. Your supporters are what keep you driving on...but never underestimate your critics, because they are also vital to everything in life that you do.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br><br>Did it sound like I was complaining? I'm not underestimating you. I promiss!<br><br><!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->These were the famous last words of many politicians. Should we have a history lesson? <br><br><b>"As the leader of the ISA Department, I receive more hate and ridicule then most folks could begin to imagine. And all for trying to simply keep OTF a fun place to come to without having to be harassed for something stupid, or sworn at or any of the other unsavory things you may encounter in other chats like Yahoo, for example."</b><br><br>Yes, but, you see....this isn't Yahoo, or any other chats. This is <i>the Outpost</i>. We expect more. We are more. Striving to only be better than chats that are below par isn't good enough.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br><br>Who mentioned striving for anything? An example isn't necessarily a direct comparison.<br><br><!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->What are you doing to answer their demands?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br><br>Nobodies made any demands, as I stated. I've received no complaints. Except these accusations in the forums which have been vague at best. My inbox is open though..<br><br><!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->And again, I point out, that anyone in the public eye is subject to ridicule. It doesn't make it right. But, you also have to distinguish between those who are only nuisances and those who are pushing because they want and expect the system to change to become better. You'll notice the latter because they are the ones who care about what becomes of the outpost.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br><br>Is that what that is? I don't think you know me half as well as you think <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/win.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo--> <br><br><!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Zild, this isn't personal. I can't tiptoe around the issues for fear of hurting you or offending you. This is political. Your people are speaking. By not addresing their concerns, you are doing them a great disservice. These are the people who made OTF...without them, you'd have no one to police. Never disrespect them..and never underestimate them.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br><br>I'm not easily hurt or offended <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/haw.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo--> worry not! There is nothing I can do to comfort someone getting a taste of how difficult some folks make being in this department is. I don't make people join the ISA. They choose to do so. I've not disrespected anyone either. <br><br><!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Listen to their concerns and prove to them that "the powers that be" didn't make a mistake by appointing you as ISA department head.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br><br>I'd be glad to listen as I've said several times, however, I can't listen to nothing. Nobody sends any concerns beside these vague accusations on the forums. Since we don't hold public hearings, I guess only my fellow ISA'ers and 'the powers that be' would know if I was a mistake or not. I think you're judging me rather blindly, Kady. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smi.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--> But, to prove you right in all matters *bans the FBI* <!--emo&:k--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':k'><!--endemo-->
<br><br><!--EDIT|zildjian|Sep. 04 2006,20:38-->
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polson
Member
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# Posted: 4 Sep 2006 20:28
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<!--QuoteBegin--kady+Sep. 04 2006,19:00--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (kady @ Sep. 04 2006,19:00)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->And again, I point out, that anyone in the public eye is subject to ridicule. It doesn't make it right. But, you also have to distinguish between those who are only nuisances and those who are pushing because they want and expect the system to change to become better. You'll notice the latter because they are the ones who care about what becomes of the outpost.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>I didn't see this comment until my second read through and Kady my dear, I'm afraid I must take issue with this.<br><br>I have watched countless times as several people - for the record, mostly high ranking officers and oldtimers - play the provoking game. "I'm pushing you to make you react so that I can prove you did it wrong." I've said it before and I'll say it again, walking the line of breaking the PD's in order to prove a point is not a solution to the problem at hand. It says more about you than it does about the ISA or the people who put the rules in place.<br><br>If you have an issue with the way things are being run, take the time and the care to approach it appropriately within the avenues made available to you.<br><br>Gripe, complain, provoke, push, ridicule in chat/forums = no credibility for you or your point.<br><br>A well thought out, well supported letter to someone in charge = due consideration to your concerns.<br><br>The first option, when chosen by the masses, becomes merely an annoyance, a bunch of rebels who found a cause and jumped on board because they wanted something to do. No one listens to them because they are unreasonable, they have no evidence to support their claims, they are easily swayed by emotion.<br><br>The second option, when chosen byt eh masses, becomes a red flag for leadership. They have to stop and acknowledge that real complains with real evidence are coming in, they have to wonder if something is wrong, if something needs to be addressed. Logic rules.<br><br>People, sooner or later it will become apparent who you want to be heard by, those in high places who can make a difference, or by your peers who will give you all the hero worship you want but never make a damn bit of difference.
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lythria_2005
Member
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# Posted: 5 Sep 2006 00:58
Reply
After eading thorugh all that first thing in the morning...I feel like I have read the dictionary front to back...:(...but I shall attempt this...
Firstly, Zild made a very good point...people do have a problem with the Police, until the come to their aid...and I think the same goes for the ISA...to a certain extent...
Secondly, this is just a chatroom yes...but...everyone here has commited to making it a better place...and for all of those working in departments...it is our chatroom...we help to build it and maintain it...therefore addressing issues like this is key to keeping th outpost chatters happy...
Thirdly, and this is grand...I have seen many chatters within OTF, who chat often, and have been here a while, break the PDs, but because the ISA understand that these parties don;t do it often, and when they do, they quickly appologise...no action is generally taken...you can see this as "bending the rules for friends" or you can see it as a political decision...
We have two choices, and extreme right wing ISA that imposes the same rules on us all...not caring who we are, what we do within OTF etc...or we stick with the more liberal ISA...the ISA that has the freedom to assess a situation and decide what is best for the outpost...
we may not wgree with that, but let me ask you a question...when was the last time that you saw a situation not quickly dealt with by an ISA officer? and the rule bending everyone speaks of...where is the evidence of this?...If a long standing member of the outpost breaks the rules...such as Iain, would you accept him getting banned?...or would you accept an appology he makes, and leave it at that?...
right wing, or liberal?...
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lythria_2005
Member
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# Posted: 5 Sep 2006 01:06
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...and before anyone says, "nobody has the right to bend the rules," the ISA are basically the police here at OTF...
would you prefer a Police officer who let you off even though you were going slightly over the speed limit...
or one that gave you the "don't do it again," lecture, and let you on your way...
right wing, or liberal?...
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polson
Member
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# Posted: 5 Sep 2006 08:13
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Did he just call me a liberal? Cuz I'll kill him. 
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