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polson
Member
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# Posted: 5 Nov 2006 17:29
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Why don't they have pep rallies for people who are good at things other than sports? Like the tech guys who build robots and win national competitions. Or the artists who do incredible masterpieces with crappy high school supplies. Or people who write brilliantly for assignments or school newspapers. Why are we so hyped up about sportsk and those who play it but never give any sort of "hey! You contribute to our school too!" recognition to those who are talented in other areas?
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darth_balco
Member
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# Posted: 5 Nov 2006 17:57
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<!--QuoteBegin--polson+Nov. 05 2006,17:29--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (polson @ Nov. 05 2006,17:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why don't they have pep rallies for people who are good at things other than sports? Like the tech guys who build robots and win national competitions. Or the artists who do incredible masterpieces with crappy high school supplies. Or people who write brilliantly for assignments or school newspapers. Why are we so hyped up about sportsk and those who play it but never give any sort of "hey! You contribute to our school too!" recognition to those who are talented in other areas?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>That would be neat if they did! Because that would've been nice for the Brain Bowl to have Pep Rallies like that.
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kady
Member
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# Posted: 5 Nov 2006 20:05
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Hrrmm.....
Well, have to say, I hated high school but not because it was miserable for me. My friends were all popular and the most intelligent in our class. I won almost every award out there....including a governor's citation for my writing and got to miss a day of classes and attend an Olympic bicycling event and read an essay I wrote over the radio.
I think I lost all respect for football players when I found out that one year one of the hazing initiations involved a group of my classmates/jocks holding down a freshman and urinating on him. Gotta say, you can't really have respect for someone after that. Sorry.
I studied Drama for three years and was at the top of my class. I studied journalism and was on the yearbook staff. My name was announced for various such awards and when I walked through the halls, everyone would say, "Congratulations, Melissa!" and I would blush horribly and mutter, "Thanks." People would approach me to talk to me, and I had no clue who they were.
I don't like cliques. I don't like people being left out. And, if I will remove myself from the circle if I don't agree with it. *shrugs* That's who I am.
I'm not saying I don't whine and beg for attention. And I realize that not every jock is like the ones I just described. But, I'm also feisty and opinionated and strong willed....and some would say tempermental.
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kady
Member
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# Posted: 5 Nov 2006 20:17
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<!--QuoteBegin--polson+Nov. 05 2006,17:29--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (polson @ Nov. 05 2006,17:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why don't they have pep rallies for people who are good at things other than sports? Like the tech guys who build robots and win national competitions. Or the artists who do incredible masterpieces with crappy high school supplies. Or people who write brilliantly for assignments or school newspapers. Why are we so hyped up about sports and those who play it but never give any sort of "hey! You contribute to our school too!" recognition to those who are talented in other areas?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>I have no idea. It's embedded into us. =(<br><br>I think we're so conditioned to think like we do that we never even stop to realize that maybe we're wrong. It's all about, "This is how it is. There is no other way."<br><br><br>About a year ago, I approached our Recreational Coordinator about organizing a dance program and a cheerleading program for the girls in our care. I tried to do a lot of work to plan programs for the girls, though......since *everything* was targeted towards the boys.<br><br>Basically, I was told, "Yeah, sounds great! Ryan's started a football team for the boys, so the girls can cheer for them." I just looked at him and thought, "Ummmm.....that's all you think cheerleading is about?" What about the phsycial and emotional skills it will build, the challenge, and competition? It's not just about putting on skirts, waving around pom poms and impressing a group of teenage boys. <br><br>I played basketball in junior high, but wasn't allowed to in high school because it would interfere with my academic pursuits (according to my mum) and played tennis in high school.
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darth_balco
Member
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# Posted: 5 Nov 2006 20:27
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<!--QuoteBegin--richard+Nov. 05 2006,10:28--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (richard @ Nov. 05 2006,10:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--lzrman+Nov. 05 2006,09:18--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (lzrman @ Nov. 05 2006,09:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->I just want people to keep an open mind if someone should email them at a later date, having an idea or even a comment. Don't shut them out of the creation process / improvement process. There have been many ideas that patrons have suggested and things have been done partially but not complete.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>The problem is not communication. The problem is the one trying to communicate. Or rather, those who the communication is directed towards...<br><br>If some unknown noob comes up with a brilliant idea he, she or it runs a very good chance of being ignored.<br>A mediocre idea from someone who just happens to be rather chummy with those in command however probably will be followed up and then presented to us like it were the new coming of Christ...<br><br>I believe someone not too long ago said this place nowadays was all about which clique you belong to. I concur.<br><br>That idea from the unknown noob btw most likely will be picked up (read: stolen) by someone who does like to kiss butt who then probably will become the hero of the month for his, her or its briliant insight.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>I gotta say he hit it right on the spot! *nods*
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lzrman
Member
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# Posted: 5 Nov 2006 20:58
Reply
Agreed!
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monny
Member
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# Posted: 6 Nov 2006 00:47
Reply
What Richard said does hit the nail on the head. 
After a while people stop giving a darn and just find something else besides OTF to fill their precious free time.
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darth_balco
Member
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# Posted: 6 Nov 2006 10:19
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<!--QuoteBegin--monny+Nov. 06 2006,00:47--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (monny @ Nov. 06 2006,00:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->What Richard said does hit the nail on the head. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smi.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--><br><br>After a while people stop giving a darn and just find something else besides OTF to fill their precious free time.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>Another excellent point! <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smi.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
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stevennorton
Member
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# Posted: 6 Nov 2006 10:39
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So...
...
...
I was a high school jock  I played football, I got pissed on, and in return pissed on others. I was popular, in the A clique and was adored for it. Hate me if you like, that's just the way it is.
Cliques are going to exsist. People feel the need to be surrounded by like minded people that they know and trust. It's human nature and we're all alittle insecure.
Some times in order to be heard you need to change. You need to fit in. If that doesn't sit well then your going to complain that your an outsider. These are just facts of life.
Yes, there is a clique at the top. Yes, there is a problem with communication. Yes, no one is really listening to you. My suggestion... buy some knee pads cause life is rough.
Steve
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bria
Member
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# Posted: 6 Nov 2006 11:17
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There is nowhere, but nowhere, in this world where you're going to have everyone getting on with everyone. Cliques and groups are always going to exist.
I like some people better than others. I get on with some people better than with others. That's the way it is, and I don't think anyone in this world is different.
I'm not in the cool clique. I don't want to be. But I've got the people I'm close to and trust. It's always gonna be like that.
The existence of these groups shouldn't mean that we ignore and make fun of anyone who's not in a particular one. But you're not going to get rid of the groups themselves, because people are social creatures and like-minded people are always going to band together.
If you're sore because you're an "outsider", then I respectfully suggest you do some soul-searching. Stop trying to get into the group you think is "cool" and find people who suit you. We've got over 15,000 members - there must be one or two people you can get on with.
If you can't... that points to a problem with you, not with everyone else. 
Apart from that: What Steve said.
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taurik
Member
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# Posted: 6 Nov 2006 11:43
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It's really quite simple. Unless you are worthy, you don't talk to me. If you find that you must communicate with me and you have exausted all other resources, then you must ask permission to speak with me.
What's so difficult about this?
The Keith has spoken.
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kady
Member
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# Posted: 6 Nov 2006 11:48
Reply
<!--QuoteBegin--stevennorton+Nov. 06 2006,10:39--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (stevennorton @ Nov. 06 2006,10:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->So...<br><br>...<br>...<br>I was a high school jock <!--emo&:(--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('><!--endemo--> I played football, I got pissed on, and in return pissed on others. I was popular, in the A clique and was adored for it. Hate me if you like, that's just the way it is.<br><br>Cliques are going to exsist. People feel the need to be surrounded by like minded people that they know and trust. It's human nature and we're all alittle insecure.<br><br>Some times in order to be heard you need to change. You need to fit in. If that doesn't sit well then your going to complain that your an outsider. These are just facts of life.<br><br>Yes, there is a clique at the top. Yes, there is a problem with communication. Yes, no one is really listening to you. My suggestion... buy some knee pads cause life is rough.<br><br>Steve<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>The thing is, in high school, I would have been the shy girl sitting in the front row trying to get all A's and you would have been the big dumb jock sitting beside me annoying me and trying to copy all my answers. <!--emo&:(--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('><!--endemo-->
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bria
Member
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# Posted: 6 Nov 2006 11:52
Reply
And here, Steve and Kady have the chance to overlook those exterior differences because online, you can't necessarily tell.
For all your problems and complaints, there's good sides to it too, isn't there?
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kady
Member
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# Posted: 6 Nov 2006 12:03
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<!--QuoteBegin--bria+Nov. 06 2006,11:52--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (bria @ Nov. 06 2006,11:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin--><font color=#9999ff>And here, Steve and Kady have the chance to overlook those exterior differences because online, you can't necessarily tell.<br><br>For all your problems and complaints, there's good sides to it too, isn't there? <!--emo&:P--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/ton.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':P'><!--endemo--></font><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>Hrm.....see, I was going to post, "I almost respected him before I found that out. <!--emo&:(--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('><!--endemo--> "
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kady
Member
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# Posted: 6 Nov 2006 12:13
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<!--QuoteBegin--taurik+Nov. 06 2006,11:43--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (taurik @ Nov. 06 2006,11:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->It's really quite simple. Unless you are worthy, you don't talk to me. If you find that you must communicate with me and you have exausted all other resources, then you must ask permission to speak with me. <br><br>What's so difficult about this?<br><br>The Keith has spoken.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>*shoves Keith back into his hole* Keith's a retard, a retard who I happen to adore and respect..........but a retard nonetheless.<br><br><br>Actually, null that. I lurv Keith! Keith has spoken!
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brady
Member
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# Posted: 6 Nov 2006 17:42
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Cliques? Awesome. I should definitely be in the cool group. Have you seen me? I'm dead sexy. Also, I have an iPod and my drivers licence. Plus, I drink lots. This makes me, like, the coolest, right?
Who exactly are the exclusive cliques that do all this butt kissing and are proclaimed as heroes of the month and all that? Because I want in. I'm sick of people ignoring my random jabs at the community based on personal opinion. I should be heard, damnit!
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bria
Member
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# Posted: 6 Nov 2006 17:48
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*lol* 
I like Brady. I really like Brady.
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polson
Member
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# Posted: 6 Nov 2006 18:42
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Cliques happen, indeed, and sometimes we perceive exclusiveness where none exists. If you make an effort to get to know new people it can be very easy to crack into those groups. Sometimes just being yourself can help. But if you're desperate to get into a specific group, you gotta ask yourself why. Are you putting your value in them and what they think of you? Because that's a miserable way to live.
When I was in elementry school, I was the lowest of the low. I wandered the playground by myself, and if anyone saw me coming they would run away so I couldn't ask if I could play with them. Even the loser kids that everyone picked on avoided me. I haven't a clue why I was such a social leper, I just came to school one day and I was. The day before I'd been just the same as any other kid. I stopped trying to get into groups by the time I hit grade 6 and guess what...that's when a group found me. I had some great friends who carried me through high school (we all went to different middle schools).
In high school I quickly discovered that I was a protected social class. My high school was ruled by preppies and jocks who considered the goths and the geeks (me the geek) to be socially acceptable. Any other social group got the hell beat out of them and usually transfered to the other high school within one month. I thought that in order to stay under the "pick on" radar, I had to lay low but it turns out the jocks liked me! They thought I was really cool and if anybody said anything unkind to me, they would stand up for me, people who I never ate lunch with or ever sat next to in class would tell their friends to leave me alone. It was amazing because I hadn't done anything to break into a clique or a group and I found they respected me for who I was, even if I wasn't their best friend.
In college I had a tight tight tight friendship. Just the two of us, but people felt like we were a clique. We weren't, we had no problem with other people hanging out with us, it's just that we had a bond that we couldn't just have with other people by saying so. It didn't mean we didn't appreciate their company or their friendship or that we didn't respect them. And I saw groups that I wanted to be a part of too, one group I tried to get into and when I finally felt like I had, it fell apart over the development of a dating relationship between two members (my cousin and the girl he is now married to). Turns out I didn't really want to hang out with the rest of them anyway, Clinton and Karen ended up being my closest friends in my third year when my best friend was no longer attending. And the second group I wanted to be a part of invited me!!! I hadn't done anything but be myself and they saw someone they wanted to hang out with.
And there are lots of groups I don't want to be a part of and people I don't have any interest in spending time with. They'll just have to get over it - I am not here to people please. And if they're putting their value in whether or not I like them, they have bigger issues than whether or not I like them. You can't be a part of every group and you can't expect people not to form groups of those they enjoy spending time with the most. Deal with it.
And Brady is hawt. I want to be in a clique with Brady.
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babel
Member
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# Posted: 6 Nov 2006 23:20
Reply
Ideally there should be a clique here: OTF as a whole. That'd be good. 
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babel
Member
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# Posted: 6 Nov 2006 23:29
Reply
At secondary school I was shy and quiet and not that good at standing up for myself. But I was clever. I made friends with one of the toughest lads in the year and got myself a protector. Jeff Hindle, his name was.
The 'jock' induction ritual sounds . . well, to me it sounds mindless and pathetic. I don't understand why go that far. Jesus christ.
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bria
Member
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# Posted: 7 Nov 2006 04:32
Reply
The whole "high and mighty clique" myth is at least partially fuelled by jealousy and frustration. If X gets an award and Y doesn't, it's much easier for Y to point the finger and mutter about cliques. If X is in the clique and Y is not, it's perfectly understandable that Y doesn't get an award.
Much easier than thinking "Crap... maybe I should start doing some work" or "maybe I should change my attitude" or "maybe I do need to start being a bit nicer".
Much easier to make up an excuse of a "high and mighty clique" than to look for the reason with yourself.
And if there is such a clique, and you want to be in it and you're not, maybe you should ask yourself why. And no, it's not because the world is conspiring against you. The world ain't about to bother with that. In the larger picture, it doesn't make one ounce of difference to it whether you're CL2, CL6 or CL2993 in a chatroom somewhere.
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stevennorton
Member
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# Posted: 7 Nov 2006 05:55
Reply
I was *almost* respected? And I threw that all away with admitting I'm a jock. I guess at the end of the day us physically superior beings are dumber... Sorry for distracting you in class Kady, I was just too shy to ask you out
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citron
Member
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# Posted: 7 Nov 2006 06:37
Reply
Well said, Svenja! You hit it exactly.
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kady
Member
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# Posted: 7 Nov 2006 09:17
Reply
<!--QuoteBegin--stevennorton+Nov. 07 2006,05:55--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (stevennorton @ Nov. 07 2006,05:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->I was <font color="gold">*almost*</font> respected? And I threw that all away with admitting I'm a jock. <!--emo&:(--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('><!--endemo--> I guess at the end of the day us physically superior beings are dumber... Sorry for distracting you in class Kady, I was just too shy to ask you out <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/win.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>What's this? The big dumb jock was too shy to ask me out? <!--emo&:?--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/srp.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':?'><!--endemo--><br><br><br>Had I known this, I wouldn't have studied so hard. I could have been giggly and flirty and worn short skirts to try to distract you. Can we go back in time and try it all over again?<br><br><br>And...ummm....being a football player makes you athletically superior? How did you come to this conclusion?<br><br><br>Let's see. I graduated high school in three years instead of the allotted four. And my last year, the boy I liked wound up graduating a year after me as scheduled and then attended Harvard. Needless to say, I'm regretting missing that opportunity. But, I was shy and stubborn so we talked a lot but we never dated.<br><br><br><br><br>Note to all high school aged girls: When the football player sits down beside of you in class, pick up your books and move to the opposite side of the room. Trust me on this.
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darth_balco
Member
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# Posted: 7 Nov 2006 10:01
Reply
I gotta agree with Dawn on what Svenja said, cause that made a lot of sense to me! *nods*
Also, Keith, as always, made an excellent point too!
Now with that out of the way, let's push towards that goal of installing the pony express into OTF. Granted we will have to deal with a lamer by the name of Jesse James, but I think we can overcome that!
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kady
Member
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# Posted: 7 Nov 2006 13:45
Reply
Hrm....
There possibly is a lack of communication at the Outpost.
People are left out.
Bria made many many many wonderful points! Which were true and valid.
I personally *know* why people don't talk to me. I have no doubts over this. But, no, I'm not planning on changing my mentality nor do I plan on becoming nicer.
I say, if I can get along with a big dumb jock, then anyone here can get along with anyone. *nods*
But, stop looking at people who want to fit in.
Start looking at yourselves.
Have you ever teased someone at OTF and they perhaps took it the wrong way and were hurt? This applies to everyone. Usually, feuds begin over misunderstandings and then just escalate from there. Be open and honest with everyone. And deal with the fact that I yell at everyone...Keith has, and look how fabulously we get along!
Now start letting people into your cliques, damn it! Stop ignoring people and stop making fun of people. Everyone here has ideas. Listen to them. Stop letting your personal feelings hinder OTF's success. If you don't comply...I *will* spam you.....understand? 
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bria
Member
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# Posted: 7 Nov 2006 15:15
Reply
Spam? Spam from Kady? No! Say it ain't so! I'll do whatever you want!
Except hang around with people I don't like. 'cause that'd be pretence and fake and I don't work like that. Sorry.
And surely... if you're saying we should let people into our cliques (taking for a fact, for now, that these cliques exist), and stop ignoring them... wasn't the point to listen to everyone regardless of what clique they're in? So surely it's counterproductive to let someone into my clique in order to stop ignoring them? Because all that's going to do is reinforce the clique mentality.
Just confused me there.
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kady
Member
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# Posted: 7 Nov 2006 15:57
Reply
<!--QuoteBegin--bria+Nov. 07 2006,15:15--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (bria @ Nov. 07 2006,15:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin--><font color=#9999ff>Spam? Spam from Kady? No! Say it ain't so! I'll do whatever you want!<br><br>Except hang around with people I don't like. 'cause that'd be pretense and fake and I don't work like that. Sorry. <!--emo&:P--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/ton.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':P'><!--endemo--><br><br>And surely... if you're saying we should let people into our cliques (taking for a fact, for now, that these cliques exist), and stop ignoring them... wasn't the point to listen to everyone regardless of what clique they're in? So surely it's counterproductive to let someone into my clique in order to stop ignoring them? Because all that's going to do is <i>reinforce</i> the clique mentality.<br><br>Just confused me there.</font><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>That's it! Bria's not allowed into my clique! <!--emo&:o--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/ann.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':o'><!--endemo--><br><br>Then again, no one has actually accepted me into a clique for the entire 8 or so years that I've been here. So, I don't actually have one to let her into. <!--emo&:(--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('><!--endemo--><br><br>Maybe....just maybe.....OTF doesn't actually have any cliques and we are all beating ourselves up trying to get accepted into something that just doesn't exist. Maybe if someone is mean to us, it isn't that we are being targeted and singled out, but that this is just that person's normal reaction to everyone. Nah, that's too radical an idea. <br><br>Maybe, we should all just go live our lives and realize OTF is just a chatroom for fun. <br><br>Now, high school jocks on the other hand.....we should all hold grudges against them for the rest of our lives.
<br><br><!--EDIT|kady|Nov. 07 2006,16:04-->
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polson
Member
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# Posted: 7 Nov 2006 21:32
Reply
Kady, donuts to dollars, someone perceives you in a clique even if you do not consider yourself to be in one.
What you perceive, what others perceive and what is true rarely coincide that nicely.
I don't think I'm in an OTF clique, but I betcha someone some where has me nailed down in a clique with so and so and so and so. And they feel left out when I don't talk to them and invite them to hang out with my club on MSN (for the record, I don't have a club on MSN, I occationally pester Iain, Zild and Brady but that's because if you're going to pester someone, pester someone with power! ).
When I look at OTF and the people in it I don't see cliques, I see groups of people who have connected on a deeper level and tend to gravitate toward one another. There is nothing, absolutely nothing wrong with that and no amount of complaining from anybody is going to change my mind on that. You can't make anybody buddy buddy themselves to people they just don't connect with. Like Bria said...pretense. It's insincere, it's false, it's unathentic. If someone's spending time with me, I want it to be because they genuinely want to, not because they think they have to in order to achieve some level of OTF greatness, or to humor me so that I can achieve the same.
Communication has nothing to do with cliques. How did we intermingle these concepts?
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aeon
Member
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# Posted: 7 Nov 2006 23:33
Reply
Well said, Polson.
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