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Outpost 10F Forums / Gossip Corner / Astronomical Union names new planet
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dierna
Member
# Posted: 18 Sep 2008 07:25
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Welp. We got ourselves ANOTHER planet to remember. Thank you IAU, you folks are all bundles of fun.

So lets all welcome Haumea, named after the Hawaiian fertility goddess. Please note: This planet was previously called Santa..... Yeah...

It's got 2 moons: Hiʻiaka (formerly Rudolph) and Namaka (formerly Blitzen). Both moons are named after the daughters of Haumea. Hi'iaka is the patron goddess of Hawaii and Nameka is a water spirit.

Remember the good ole days when we had 9 planets to remember instead of 13?? Yeah...good times...good times..

http://www.iau.org/public_press/news/release/iau08 07/

polson
Member
# Posted: 18 Sep 2008 15:28
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There's thirteen now?

I refuse to acknowledge anymore than nine. And I count Pluto.

majin_fett
Member
# Posted: 18 Sep 2008 16:12
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That's right! Change is horrible!

demonvamp
Member
# Posted: 18 Sep 2008 19:37
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Another planetoid, yeah?

dierna
Member
# Posted: 18 Sep 2008 20:02
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Quoting: polson
There's thirteen now?


Yep. 13. In order:
Mercury
Venus
Earth
Mars
Ceres (which could possably contain life in it's oceans!)
Jupiter
Saturn
Uranus
Neptune
Pluto
Haumea
Makemake
Eris

Ceres was actually always considered a planet by Astronomers. Then it became an asteroid then a Dwarf Planet. So poor Pluto's not the only one that they keep changing.

The next possable canidates are: Sedna, Quaoar, Orcus, Ixion, and Varuna.

polson
Member
# Posted: 18 Sep 2008 21:29
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What's the difference between a planet and a dwarf planet? Is it just its rotation? If it rotates a planet it's a moon, right? If it rotates the sun it's a planet? What are the dwarf's rotating around?

majin_fett
Member
# Posted: 18 Sep 2008 22:10
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Orbit. Not rotate. Rotation is the way the planet spins. Revolution is where it orbits around something.

Example: The Earth revolves around the sun. The Moon revolves (or orbits) around the Earth.

polson
Member
# Posted: 19 Sep 2008 03:52
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Right, right orbiting, I knew what I meant, we all knew what I meant.

darth_balco
Member
# Posted: 19 Sep 2008 05:25 · Edited by: darth_balco
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Quoting: dierna
Ceres (which could possably contain life in it's oceans!)

Okay sounds gravy but....
Quoting: dierna
Ceres was actually always considered a planet by Astronomers. Then it became an asteroid then a Dwarf Planet. So poor Pluto's not the only one that they keep changing.

How does an asteroid possess oceans? Last time I checked, they put big craters in planets that wipe out life. And ya know I don't recalled being taught a planet with a name that sounds like a Final Fantasy 6 character. *l*

dierna
Member
# Posted: 19 Sep 2008 06:49
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Quoting: darth_balco
How does an asteroid possess oceans? Last time I checked, they put big craters in planets that wipe out life. And ya know I don't recalled being taught a planet with a name that sounds like a Final Fantasy 6 character. *l*


I dunno.. blame the IAU. Ceres was named after the Roman goddess of agriculture.

Quoting: polson
What's the difference between a planet and a dwarf planet?


The 2006 definition of "planet" by the International Astronomical Union (IAU) states that in the Solar System a planet is a celestial body that (1) is in orbit around the Sun, (2) has sufficient mass so that it assumes a hydrostatic equilibrium (nearly round) shape, and (3) has "cleared the neighbourhood" around its orbit.

A non-satellite body fulfilling only the first two of these criteria is classified as a "dwarf planet".

In the end stages of planet formation, a planet will have cleared the neighbourhood of its own orbital zone, meaning it has become gravitationally dominant, and there are no other bodies of comparable size other than its own satellites or those otherwise under its gravitational influence. The current definition of a planet adopted by the International Astronomical Union (IAU) only includes those bodies which have "cleared the neighbourhood of its orbit." A large body which meets the other criteria for a planet but has not cleared its neighbourhood is classified as a dwarf planet. This includes Pluto, which shares its orbital neighbourhood with Kuiper belt objects such as the plutinos. The IAU's definition does not attach specific numbers or equations to this term, but the extent to which all the planets have cleared their neighbourhoods is much greater, by any measure, than that of any dwarf planet or any candidate for dwarf planet known so far.

AIU: Confusing the heck out of people with their wacked out notions of the definitions of celestial bodies since 1919.

And incidentally I was looking at the list of Planetoids and there's one called TARDIS. There's also Bilbo and Tolkien.

Don't you just love it when geeks get to name the planets/planetoids/plutoids/whatever they name?

Oh BTW... if you didn't know...our sun is a Yellow Dwarf...it's not a regular star. And unlike what is said in Star Trek Epsilon Eridani is a trinary dwarf star system. Fun!

majin_fett
Member
# Posted: 19 Sep 2008 16:08
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Quoting: dierna
Oh BTW... if you didn't know...our sun is a Yellow Dwarf...it's not a regular star.


They've said that for years. There's no such thing as a "regular star". There's all kinds of stars: white dwarfs, yellow dwarfs, blue giants, red giants, etc.

bria
Member
# Posted: 19 Sep 2008 17:46
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I still think it's ridiculous for humans to name any of these things "dwarfs". Just for the record. Also, blah, we went with Roman gods for all our original planets and now, all of a sudden, all these foreign deities are invading? Blasphemy, I say!

(Although, if they name one of these dwarf planets "Loki" or "Ymir" or even "Thor", I will laugh.)

Also, I doubt that "things that crash into planets, create craters, and kill stuff" is the official definition of "asteroid" (and even if it were, why would the fact of containing water stop them from doing that?), but hey, never tell me the odds.

majin_fett
Member
# Posted: 19 Sep 2008 21:57
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Asteroid:

Also called minor planet. Astronomy. any of the thousands of small bodies of from 480 miles (775 km) to less than one mile (1.6 km) in diameter that revolve about the sun in orbits lying mostly between those of Mars and Jupiter.

dierna
Member
# Posted: 19 Sep 2008 23:03
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Quoting: bria
(Although, if they name one of these dwarf planets "Loki" or "Ymir" or even "Thor", I will laugh.)


There's a planetoid called Thora, Loki is the name of a volcano on the moon Io and Ymir is a moon of Saturn.

darth_balco
Member
# Posted: 20 Sep 2008 05:33 · Edited by: darth_balco
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Quoting: bria
Also, I doubt that "things that crash into planets, create craters, and kill stuff" is the official definition of "asteroid"

Really now? I said that was the official definition of asteroid? Amazing! Since when was I a part of NASA?
Quoting: bria
(and even if it were, why would the fact of containing water stop them from doing that?)

Really now? I said that that if asteroids contained water, that it would stop them from wiping out planets! So I guess that makes me the go-to-guy on how to deal with natural disasters then.
Quoting: darth_balco
How does an asteroid possess oceans? Last time I checked, they put big craters in planets that wipe out life.
Hmm...let me see here...nope didn't say that was the official definition of asteroids and definitely didn't say that asteroids containing water would not be life-threatening. Last time I checked, I was wondering how in the hell does a Giant rock that has been known to wipe out life (ask the Dinosaurs, they'll tell ya all about it!) can contain oceans. You know, large bodies of water. Glad to see people making me say things I didn't say at all! I'm gonna try that with a republican that opposes gay marriage by yelling at them, "THEY HATE GAYS! THEY HATE GAYS! THEY WANNA BURN THEM AT THE STAKE!"

dierna
Member
# Posted: 20 Sep 2008 12:06
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Quoting: darth_balco
Really now? I said that was the official definition of asteroid? Amazing! Since when was I a part of NASA?


The ironic thing is the term Asteroid wasn't even in use till Ceres was discovered!

The classification of Ceres has changed more than once and has been the subject of some disagreement. Johann Elert Bode believed Ceres to be the "missing planet" he had proposed to exist between Mars and Jupiter, at a distance of 419 million km (2.8 AU) from the Sun. Ceres was assigned a planetary symbol, and remained listed as a planet in astronomy books and tables (along with 2 Pallas, 3 Juno and 4 Vesta) for about half a century until further asteroids were discovered.

However as other objects were discovered in the area it was realised that Ceres represented the first of a class of many similar bodies. Sir William Herschel coined in 1802 the term asteroid ("star-like") for such bodies, writing "they resemble small stars so much as hardly to be distinguished from them, even by very good telescopes".

As the first such body to be discovered, it was given the designation 1 Ceres under the modern system of asteroid numbering.

The 2006 debate surrounding Pluto and what constitutes a 'planet' led to Ceres being considered for reclassification as a planet.

A proposal before the International Astronomical Union for the definition of a planet would have defined a planet as "a celestial body that has sufficient mass for its self-gravity to overcome rigid body forces so that it assumes a hydrostatic equilibrium (nearly round) shape, and (b) is in orbit around a star, and is neither a star nor a satellite of a planet".

Had this resolution been adopted, it would have made Ceres the fifth planet in order from the Sun. However, it was not accepted, and in its place an alternate definition of "planet" came into effect as of August 24, 2006: A planet is "a celestial body that is in orbit around the sun, has sufficient mass for its self-gravity to overcome rigid body forces so that it assumes a ... nearly round shape, and has cleared the neighborhood around its orbit." By this definition, Ceres is not a planet (because it shares its orbit with the thousands of other asteroids in the main asteroid belt), and is now classified as a "dwarf planet" (along with Pluto, Makemake, Haumea and Eris). The issue of whether Ceres remains an asteroid was not addressed.

Dual classifications such as Main-belt comets do exist, and being a dwarf planet does not preclude having dual designations.


So Ceres is an Asteroid/Dwarf Planet/Planetoid/thingy cuz it's in the main asteroid belt and it's smaller than our own moon..... Even more confusion is found over the fact that it's got other names. The Germans call it Hera and the Greeks call it Demeter (which is the Greek equivilent for Ceres and makes more sense than Hera.)

Oh hey here's a piccie of Ceres



bria
Member
# Posted: 20 Sep 2008 17:38
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Quoting: dierna
There's a planetoid called Thora, Loki is the name of a volcano on the moon Io and Ymir is a moon of Saturn.


That's no fun.

Quoting: darth_balco
I was wondering how in the hell does a Giant rock that has been known to wipe out life (ask the Dinosaurs, they'll tell ya all about it!) can contain oceans.


Well, why couldn't it? Because it's too small? Because all the water would fall off it when it crashes into a planet? Because oceans don't wipe out life?

I mean, I don't know if there are oceans on any asteroids. I just don't understand how you figure that because they have been known to wipe out life, they can't contain oceans. It doesn't seem logical.

bria
Member
# Posted: 20 Sep 2008 17:53
Reply 


Also, I think the oceans-on-asteroids thing was referring to Ceres, which was classified as an asteroid at some point (due to being in the asteroid belt), and might have an ocean. Don't look at me, I didn't make it up.

darth_balco
Member
# Posted: 20 Sep 2008 18:21
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I'm not saying that because they can wipe out life, they can't contain oceans. I'm wondering how a giant rock with no core, no magnetic field, little gravitational force can hold a large body of water. Fragments of water, I can see that. But a giant body of water like the Atlantic or Pacific in a large rock that can be around the size of Texas? I have trouble buying into that.

And the oceans-on-asteroids was referring to that Ceres planet since I'm the one that brought it up. *l* I do love how we not only classify what's a planet/dwarf/asteroid/Xbox 360/whatever, but making outlandish statements like the Sun will expire in 5 billion years because of some math equations and pictures of stars, even though the farthest we've been in space is the moon.

daecrist
Member
# Posted: 21 Sep 2008 02:01
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Quoting: darth_balco
I do love how we not only classify what's a planet/dwarf/asteroid/Xbox 360/whatever, but making outlandish statements like the Sun will expire in 5 billion years because of some math equations and pictures of stars, even though the farthest we've been in space is the moon.


Actually we've traveled about 13.8 billion light years to the very edge of the universe with orbital observatories such as Hubble and Swift. Take an astronomy class sometime. It's complicated, but never ceases to amaze. We can guestimate the life of the sun based on the lifecycle of similar stars that have been observed.

As for the names, it was a convention to name planetary bodies after Greek and Roman gods, but they ran out and had to start looking elsewhere.

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