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ajcardall
Member
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# Posted: 27 Oct 2007 06:44
Reply
Svenja is right. Yesterday was some deadly craic, because of the people who were around. This will sound very boys-own club, and I apologise for that, but I feel the loss/fading away of some of the more older members is making the place less fun. For me, anyway. People will say to make new friends etc etc, and sure, that works... but I've no incentive to go to OTF to meet new people. Instead I go to speak to old friends.
To be honest, I'll only log in if people like Iain, Svenja, Shane, Asim, CT, Brandi, Pat, and a few others are around.
I know this is clique-ish, but let's be brutally honest, we're all a little guilty of that.
Anyway, the point is that the fun of OTF doesn't come (for me, anyway) from events, departments, promotions or awards, but the people in there.
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polson
Member
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# Posted: 27 Oct 2007 08:49
Reply
What am I? Chopped liver? I'm still here, you know. I've been here for ten years. Buck and I are a couple of the only ones who still regularly chat here. My records don't show my real chat hours because I logged in as a crewman for five or six years, but I probably p0wn you all. Take that Majin! 
I was at the "good old days". I was at the "good old days" that happened after those ones, and the "good old days" that happened after those ones, and the "good old days" that happened after those ones. It seriously amuses me the way people throw around the "good old days" when it's all relative! You know what I remember? I remember when the ISA was Security and it was more of a club, a clique, a "hey I have a phaser and you don't" department. And yet people get nestalgic about it. Probably because folks were so wrapped up in themselves that they didn't have time to patrol the chats seriously, but still...
My point is EVERY season of OTF life will have high times and low times. They will usually variy. I remember lots of good things from the first two years of this place and I remember some bad things - things that made me even quit OTF once (yeah yeah, to my shame I have been a "I'm leaving! But I'll be back next week" chatter, but I only did it once! ). And the two years after that, there were new good things and new bad things. Frankly folks, you are NEVER going to get away from "the good old days". In two years we'll be talking about this time now as "the good old days" and I'll still be laughing at you.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. It's as simple as that.
And like Bria and AJ just said, the MAIN glue of OTF is the people, not the extras. Doesn't mean we can't have some fun with the extras though. But we can't lose the forest for the trees.
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polson
Member
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# Posted: 27 Oct 2007 08:54
Reply
And I'm not kidding, I swear to you not...I heard a member who has only been here for two years talk grandly about "the good old days" and I almost did a spit take.
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bria
Member
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# Posted: 27 Oct 2007 16:55 · Edited by: bria
Reply
Everyone always talks about "the good old days". In every aspect of life. Like "Oh, the world used to be a much safer place when Vikings were running around attacking villages with axes and swords. What's become of the world? No one is safe anymore!"
Fact is, usually the "good old days" are only good because they're now over and we can look back on them selectively.
As for cliques - they happen. Everywhere. At work, at home, at the playground, at the pub, everywhere. I don't see what's bad about them. And I'm sorry, but there are people who I consider friends and some who I don't want to consider friends. Makes me the same as everyone else in the world.
But yarr. Come on. Let's not lose sight of the things that really matter.
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buck_murray
Member
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# Posted: 27 Oct 2007 17:04
Reply
Well, I am sure everyone can accept some minor changes in OTF. May they be taking out a rank or two, or putting another one in... or deleting the Rotarran. But the internet and the world does not need another general chat in my mind, it's one thing that makes this place unique and I hope no one up there in the ranks decides to go along with that idea.
And Polson and I are of the last remnants of the first 'O' TF, and I hope that since then, some of our ideas do get heard and that we do not get cast aside for any reason just because I am a Lieutenant and she is a newly promoted Lt. Commander. I dont want to cause conflict I am just honoring the devotion and dedication to the community with what we have accomplished as crewman.
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darth_balco
Member
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# Posted: 27 Oct 2007 18:17 · Edited by: darth_balco
Reply
Quoting: buck_murray Well, I am sure everyone can accept some minor changes in OTF. May they be taking out a rank or two, or putting another one in... or deleting the Rotarran. But the internet and the world does not need another general chat in my mind, it's one thing that makes this place unique and I hope no one up there in the ranks decides to go along with that idea.
As opposed to the millions of Sci-Fi chatrooms out there? 10 years, a Specific Sci-Fi Genre chatroom was unique. Ten Forward was one of the few trek chatrooms. But it's not 1997, it's 2007 and there's far too many chatrooms of the same genre.
If it somehow opens open theme, OTF is still going to be OTF. It's not gonna be not just some typical chat you see on yahoo. The people make the site, not the site itself. It's like a console, it's nothing but a giant door holder without a game to play on it. Basically without the people that made OTF what it is, that's what OTF would be. The people that are here now would still be the same people if OTF went open-themed. A potential change to a open-theme is not gonna make the people or potential members lame or ordinary.
Would it hurt to expand our horizons to bring in people that have the potential to be awesome members, but not into sci-fi?
Now I can understand that we should keep it Sci-Fi in a part to trying to bring back members. But if we want OTF to expand and become even more great, then open-theme is one of the few options. You can't really expand a lot by sticking a theme. We could get moderate expansion by generalizing the Sci-Fi and Fantasy genres to bring in fans from Battlestar Galactia, Stargate, Heroes, etc.
I'm sorry, I'm not trying to stir trouble but I fail to see how devastating becoming a open-themed chat would be.
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buck_murray
Member
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# Posted: 27 Oct 2007 21:57
Reply
No one here is stirring any trouble, if so, than they need to find a new forum. But I know that it wouldn't be devastating, just very hard to take in, may it be that I hate change, and I know that it isn't 1997 anymore but you grow onto a place and once you are here for that long you might get attached to it as I have.
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korny
Member
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# Posted: 27 Oct 2007 22:24
Reply
I haven't been here the full ten years, only seven, but I personally think that any kind of change would be good for OTF. When V.2 came out, it caused great change for the site and an influx of newer registrants. It was proof that change for the better does draw new people. The Outpost flourishes with the new, so why stick with the past and ultimately die out?
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buck_murray
Member
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# Posted: 27 Oct 2007 22:29
Reply
If anyone has thought that I want to keep OTF the exact same it was years ago, that isn't what I have been trying to say... I know it will die out that way sooner or later and I agreed with several people that at least some minor changes need to be done... but I just feel nothing huge needs to be done.
So does anyone else agree with me that an Outpost-wide survey ought t be made and put on the Updates Board regarding all of these issues so that the us and the people that do not go into the forums can be heard and we can get a full aspect on what the mass wants?
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darth_balco
Member
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# Posted: 27 Oct 2007 22:33
Reply
Another reason I am for open-theme or at least a generalization of the Sci-Fi and Fantasy genres is because at least there will be a constant flow of traffic.
Sure if they make a new LotR game, SW mini-series, or Star Trek 11, it's gonna get a lot of buzz and get us a lot of traffic at first. But eventually it dies out and we'll be right back we're were at right now. At this point, trying to get more traffic with the current genres we have is going to be very difficult, like trying to get that last drop of soda in a can.
Also, I noticed people say that giving everyone custom avatar or custom rank because the lamers will abuse it. Then we just banned them then if they're gonna be doing it. Why take away the potential for everyone to have such tools because of a few lamers being stupid?
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darth_balco
Member
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# Posted: 27 Oct 2007 22:35
Reply
Quoting: buck_murray So does anyone else agree with me that an Outpost-wide survey ought t be made and put on the Updates Board regarding all of these issues so that the us and the people that do not go into the forums can be heard and we can get a full aspect on what the mass wants?
Dmitri already did that by posting an update about this forum thread in the updates. And we can get a full aspect on what the mass wants, all members have access to post on here.
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buck_murray
Member
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# Posted: 27 Oct 2007 22:44
Reply
Quoting: darth_balco Dmitri already did that by posting an update about this forum thread in the updates. And we can get a full aspect on what the mass wants, all members have access to post on here.
Yes I noticed there is a forum here. But as you can really see there has only been no more than 10 people talking about it. And it would be a lot easier and more organized with a survey, I believe.
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darth_balco
Member
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# Posted: 27 Oct 2007 22:50
Reply
I don't know if a member-wide survey of that magnitude could be done. I mean, sending a survey to all 17,830 members? At this point, because I don't know much about OTF's server, but I don't know if it could handle something like that. Right now, this forum thread is just as affective as while only 10 members have posted, but many other members that haven't posted could be reading this and perhaps could put down what they feel should be done.
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lzrman
Member
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# Posted: 27 Oct 2007 22:53
Reply
Why not take a simple random sample and gather statistics while we are at it?
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buck_murray
Member
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# Posted: 27 Oct 2007 22:54
Reply
Well it is whatever the server can do.... I would just feel better to change the Outpost when a greater magnitude of brains collided, not just a handful. This is a great start though don't get me wrong.. but there has to be more to it later.
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majin_fett
Member
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# Posted: 27 Oct 2007 22:55
Reply
You know what? I like Asim's earlier suggestion: close OTF for a bit and see how much complaints there are.
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buck_murray
Member
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# Posted: 27 Oct 2007 22:56
Reply
Correct Lzr, I agree this is a good start on things. Just.. you know.
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buck_murray
Member
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# Posted: 27 Oct 2007 22:58
Reply
Who is going to make the ultimate decision on this? Who is going to command Order 66? Just wondering.
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darth_balco
Member
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# Posted: 27 Oct 2007 22:59
Reply
Quoting: majin_fett You know what? I like Asim's earlier suggestion: close OTF for a bit and see how much complaints there are.
That actually doesn't sound bad either. *l*
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buck_murray
Member
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# Posted: 27 Oct 2007 23:03
Reply
How would seeing how many complaints there are that the Outpost isn't running resolve the problem? I don't see it doing anything. We want to change it not kill it.
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polson
Member
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# Posted: 27 Oct 2007 23:10
Reply
Quoting: buck_murray she is a newly promoted Lt. Commander
Newly? I'm going on two years now! I think. I lost track after a year.
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buck_murray
Member
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# Posted: 27 Oct 2007 23:11
Reply
Sorry Polson.. I know I was way off. Forgive me 
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polson
Member
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# Posted: 27 Oct 2007 23:23
Reply
Well, you can close OTF if you wanna, though i'm not sure how the site being down is supposed to attract new chatters...you'll have to explain that one to me, slowly and with small words. It'll just give the rest of us a break from the place for a while. Some folks will realize they really didn't need OTF and they will quit coming, some will go through withdrawl and be weirder than normal when we come back, and others will slowly filter back when they get around to it.
I do have a question...are we trying to be the best damn chat out there? Or are we trying to be the best damn Sci Fi chat out there? Or are we just trying to create a fun place for us to interact with people who are interested in the same things?
I think those questions need to be answered before any decision can be made about "de-themeing" OTF, or generalizing it.
Personally, I wasn't looking for the best damn chat there is when I came here. I wanted a Star Trek chat. I'm pretty sure that's what Andrew, Terrance and Jesse wanted too, or they wouldn't have created a Star Trek chat. They wanted a fun place to interact with people who were interested in the same things. I think they accomplished that. So do we want to change that vision for OTF or do we want to further the site to strive toward it?
And if you change the whole purpose of the place to bring in a whole bunch of new people, I can't promise I won't ignore them and stick to my comfort zone people. I think the same can be said of many others.
So the question is...what is the ultimate purpose of OTF? What are the goals the community has for this place? What's the current vision for OTF? And do we want to change it?
P.S. If they get rid of the transmit/receive thing, I will MURDER. I am SO used to it that I can't get into chatting anywhere else on the whole friggin' internet!!!!
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polson
Member
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# Posted: 27 Oct 2007 23:29
Reply
And honestly...let's be real. "Normal" people just won't get the armory thing and the phasers and the wookie arm ripping. If we step away from the sci fi, we'll have to step away from a lot of that cool stuff that makes our chat extra special. I'd hate to see that happen.
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buck_murray
Member
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# Posted: 27 Oct 2007 23:39
Reply
Hoo-rah Polson!
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majin_fett
Member
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# Posted: 28 Oct 2007 00:16 · Edited by: majin_fett
Reply
Nevermind. Just forget I said anything. At all.
Thank you, come again.
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babel
Member
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# Posted: 28 Oct 2007 01:38
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Closing OTF down for a month would be a disaster IMO.
OTF needs change. I know we have server problems but I'm not talking about technical issues. There are things I'd like to change that would require technical intervention but there is a lot of work to do on the managerial side.
Like addressing the plummeting numbers of new chatters. That needs to be addressed urgently. Why are people not finding us? Why aren't they joining up? These are separate, but linked, issues. I wonder how visible we are. We used to have Comms handling the publicity, then Marketing - which, let's face it, was an unmitigated disaster - now surely Comms should once again be sending our message out there.
But what is our message? For me it's friendship. Yes that sounds mawkish but this place is all about friendship. Or it should be. Yeah we've all got interests, many coincide, like love for Trek or SW or LotR or whatever. There are qualities about OTF that have made the site endure for 10 years. So how do we evolve and address our problems while still retaining our essence, our spirit?
Because we DO need to change. We have two dead chat rooms, for starters. There's plenty we could do with them! We have lots of people here with their ears to the ground re sci-fi news - eg, Dierna's gossip column - let's utilise that and expand it! Let's see more inter-departmental interaction, let's see more fun events (like Hallowe'en, like special weeks for shows or events), let's make a buzz so people will want to stay when they find us.
I'd like to see a slightly streamlined OTF. Remove anything we don't really need. Lighten up! (And yes CT this does mean I will continue to shoot you out of the room for no good reason  ) Maybe calm the front page down a bit as it's too busy for my liking, especially to a first-time viewer. Make sure that people searching for us can find us.
It's early, sorry for the vagueness of my post here!
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kayana
Member
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# Posted: 28 Oct 2007 04:18
Reply
IMO, OTF is a fun place to interact not the best site. (though remember when we all used to vote regularly? Fun times!) I guess the call for change comes from two quarters: one to make OTF more fun again or at least with more avenues for people to particpate and two: from those who are worried about less chatters in the chats. Which is the one and the same thing when you think about it.
And perhaps we want to change because it's been 5 years since V2 and we have this feeling that change is needed. After all, when has OTF stayed stagnant? We've always thought of new ideas, new games, new ways to have fun online. So why not one very big change now?
Those are my thoughts at least.
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kayana
Member
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# Posted: 28 Oct 2007 04:19
Reply
IMO, OTF is a fun place to interact not the best site. (though remember when we all used to vote regularly? Fun times!) I guess the call for change comes from two quarters: one to make OTF more fun again or at least with more avenues for people to particpate and two: from those who are worried about less chatters in the chats. Which is the one and the same thing when you think about it.
And perhaps we want to change because it's been 5 years since V2 and we have this feeling that change is needed. After all, when has OTF stayed stagnant? We've always thought of new ideas, new games, new ways to have fun online. So why not one very big change now?
Those are my thoughts at least.
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bria
Member
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# Posted: 28 Oct 2007 05:50
Reply
I don't see how making the chat open-themed would help. Make it generally sci-fi, yeah. But there's a lot of people who LIKE sci-fi (the sci-fi society at my university is pretty big, just as an example). Maybe not ST, or SW, but sci-fi/fantasy in general. So why not just change a few words and make it so?
Making it open-themed kind of takes away the point. The good thing about having a theme is that it attracts people who, from the beginning, have something in common. When I googled for this place, I wasn't looking for something new and exciting, I was looking for sci-fi and fantasy.
Think about what you're trying to do here. Attract more people? What kind of people? I for one prefer quality over quantity. Also - what is the actual point of gaining more members? Maybe someone can explain that to me.
In fact, maybe we should all have a little think about what we want from OTF. Not in general, not as a group, but personally. Y'know. When you login to the chat, what do you want to see/have/etc?
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