Rank System Consultation (6)

# Posted: 29 Apr 2008 14:42
Reply

Quoting: dpo

i also remember when the MT first came around, after the first few months it felt like if u wernt a higher CL u wernt welcome, i would enter the chat and they would treat me like i was a CL2 Lamer or something, i feel that the Chat rooms are equal, i think everyone really does, if u made one chat room, is there a time were i shouldnt go in because im not a high CL? cause that isnt a community then...i feel thats one thing that is also pushing people away, once people seem to get up the CL levels...they kinda get all Snotty, kinda like u see some High Class Rich people get to were everyone is lower and they should be treated that way.

Its a very commen issue, die hard fans want somthing, so they get it, and then once they have it, they make everyone else unwelcome who's not in their circle.

A small random thought...

Why do we need to "SHOW" ranks in the chatroom???
Ranks are privilages, which give you access to greater control, but what do they do for a chatroom? the only thing I think that shoudl be seen in a chatroom is "admin" or "supervisor" a persons status on the website shouldnt need to be boasted within the confines of a chatroom do they?

Having a rank shown just leads to snobbery, and disrupts the flow fo the chatroom, freinds are meant to stick with freinds, but more then often, ranks tend to stick with ranks, and often when new people enter a room, rarther then engage everyone with chat, they soley target the higher ranked people, making them feeling pestered, which leads to the lower ranks being ignored thus leading them to feel unwelcome.

A vicious circle I say...

XZ

david1
Member

# Posted: 29 Apr 2008 20:37
Reply

In that case then what is the issue with the ranking system?

why does this topic exsist?

If people are moaning they cant break the cl4 barrier to get access to funky toys, why are they doing so?

Only thing I can think is that these are people who contribute to the community, and thus are providing a vital role, regardless of being a member of a team or doing hours upon hours of work.

Maybe they should add a new criteria to the ranking system, "Community Support" promote someone on their efforts towards the community?
After all, if it wasnt for all the "jesters" in the chatroom, how long would it take us to bore and leave?

master_chief
Member

# Posted: 29 Apr 2008 20:58
Reply

I have to agree with some of the more recent arguments. There's more to OTF than being in a department.

Amun
Member

# Posted: 29 May 2008 20:18
Reply

Hey, I think the department work to get out of CL4 is fine...But, if you're honestly entertaining the idea that it doesn't take the admiration/friendship/special treatment, of those higher than you, you're blinding yourself to the concept of human biased

We all know, but those of us whom have benefited from it wont admit it, that if you're friends with the person who hands out promotions, you're getting promoted long before the person whom they don't like, for whatever personal reasons.

I've read this seeing people skate around the issue here, "People rise in the ranks with no regard to their character" because they actually did work...Some people don't like Iain, but it's idiotic he gets pushed away from ranks for everything he's done for OTF.

However, it happens a lot. People don't get promoted, when they deserve it, such as Korny, for example, because certain people don't like her

It's a toolish display of power, OTF had become a contest of who can suck up more to the superiour officers. I'm glad to see that's actually changing, I hope it sticks.

aeon
Member

# Posted: 30 May 2008 00:19
Reply

Quoting: Amun

I'm glad to see that's actually changing, I hope it sticks.

It hasn't changed, and it won't change. This is OTF; led by people like you and I. It's like high school. If you're not friends with the cheerleaders and the football team, you're not cool, so you won't be invited to the party.

majin_fett
Member

# Posted: 30 May 2008 01:11
Reply

Then how come I'm invited to the party?

polson
Member

# Posted: 30 May 2008 03:13
Reply

I'm not everybody's favorite person. And I cause plenty of trouble.

bria
Member

# Posted: 30 May 2008 19:54
Reply

Mike, Asim, and Polson can all come to my party.

fat_man
Member

# Posted: 31 May 2008 02:28
Reply

can i bring super hans?

fat_man
Member

# Posted: 2 Jun 2008 00:36
Reply

yay!

robert_atkins
Member

# Posted: 3 Jun 2008 13:55
Reply

Ok. I am a little late on this, I can only apologize for the lateness. Nonetheless, I feel the need to put my two sence in.

Keep the Ranks. I think it gives us all something to shoot for, personally I have been working toward Lt. Cmdr. for years. I am still working and if I have to work harder than so be it. I do not however think that an expanded rank system is the way to go. It also helps noobs by knowing who to ask questions. We also need a better way for people who have in fact been here for years to advance.

I think that if we have focused leadership and more focused people than things can get better.

Second, get please get rid of the lame CL system! If someone is an Ensign call them an Ensign, if someone is a Captain call them Captain! this is just a personal pet peeve but I have said my peace on it.

Change to one chatroom and keep it SciFi! if we have to have a second make it somewhere for dept. meetings.

daecrist
Member

# Posted: 4 Jun 2008 01:58 · Edited by: daecrist
Reply

People would get promoted if they would get recommended. I'd be happy to promote someone. I wish we had more people to promote. It's probably easier to be promoted now than it ever has been in the past.

People aren't promoted because no one is making recommendations. No one is making recommendations because team members and team leaders aren't keeping track of what's going on in their areas. And at the bottom of it all is a general lack of initiative in teams and former departments either because of all the changes, lack of resources, or lack of people to actually keep things going like they once did.

That's the real vicious cycle at the moment, not some vast shadow conspiracy of high CL people looking to make new people to the chat miserable. I'd love it if more new people came to the room and stuck around. I'd love it if they told their friends and they all came. We want to encourage people to hang out in the community and have a good time. The idea that we hand out the keys to a vast OTF power conspiracy to people when they hit CL7 is just ridiculous.

majin_fett
Member

# Posted: 4 Jun 2008 02:29
Reply

*waves* I make recommendations all the time.

tiamai
Member

# Posted: 4 Jun 2008 14:29
Reply

Just have to add that when I go to use the promotions system, I have no idea if those people merit a promotion or not. I am not in thier team, I don't know if they have worked for it or not. Most of the time, I don't even recognise them.

It seems too much like a 'vote' to me. Perhaps a reccomendation from a team leader should be enough instead of hoping that someone bothers to 'vote' for you too? And no, I can't get tehidea of it being a vote out of my mind.

master_chief
Member

# Posted: 6 Jun 2008 00:38
Reply

Quoting: polson

I think CL4's should be able to make recs.

I'd have to definately agree with this... even for the lower CL recs. It would pretty much simplify the process and keep things moving. I mean, I for one know each and every person in the chat... even if I don't like that person's attitude I still try to remain civil but I can tell a respectful person that would add value to the community if given the chance.

I can vouch also for the fact that some aren't promoted because no one reccomends them. This situation has happened to me. I mean, I think that honestly people should take the time to understand and reflect on the time when they were in a period of limbo in a lower CL position and how they felt when they wanted to get to that higher position to have a role in leadership or to direct community affairs and understand also that among the juniors there is a lot of potential for that.

Quoting: daecrist

The problem is that fewer and fewer people are taking the initiative to do that sort of thing these days

Those who are in leadership positions on teams or elsewhere must be held accountable. If you want people to be motivated to contribute then there must be across the board expectations and a follow through on these expectations when they aren't met. I mean, it's your choice what to say, do, or expect of TL's and senior members here but when they don't do the simple reccomendation process over and over, don't you assume it will cause those who are doing the work and contributing to become resentful?

I think that a showcase of the work a person has done should be attached to the promotion list as a link as some way to gauge whether that person has contributed enough for that promotion. Some variant of that idea may be helpful.


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Author	Message
david1 Member	# Posted: 29 Apr 2008 14:42 Reply Quoting: dpo i also remember when the MT first came around, after the first few months it felt like if u wernt a higher CL u wernt welcome, i would enter the chat and they would treat me like i was a CL2 Lamer or something, i feel that the Chat rooms are equal, i think everyone really does, if u made one chat room, is there a time were i shouldnt go in because im not a high CL? cause that isnt a community then...i feel thats one thing that is also pushing people away, once people seem to get up the CL levels...they kinda get all Snotty, kinda like u see some High Class Rich people get to were everyone is lower and they should be treated that way. Its a very commen issue, die hard fans want somthing, so they get it, and then once they have it, they make everyone else unwelcome who's not in their circle. A small random thought... Why do we need to "SHOW" ranks in the chatroom??? Ranks are privilages, which give you access to greater control, but what do they do for a chatroom? the only thing I think that shoudl be seen in a chatroom is "admin" or "supervisor" a persons status on the website shouldnt need to be boasted within the confines of a chatroom do they? Having a rank shown just leads to snobbery, and disrupts the flow fo the chatroom, freinds are meant to stick with freinds, but more then often, ranks tend to stick with ranks, and often when new people enter a room, rarther then engage everyone with chat, they soley target the higher ranked people, making them feeling pestered, which leads to the lower ranks being ignored thus leading them to feel unwelcome. A vicious circle I say... XZ
master_chief Member	# Posted: 29 Apr 2008 16:08 Reply XZ, while I understand and appreciate your viewpoints... this really should be approached as a user-oriented change and what is beneficial to the community at large. Do most people come here for ranks if they are solidified as one of the main proponents the site is built upon? Yes. Is there some other way of doing it than how it's setup now? Possibly. I'm not sure right now but I can see what you're saying about people sticking together... but as a CL4 I've attempted to welcome every single person I see in chat despite whether I'm a lower o higher member of the group in the chat... it's only fair as someone did the same for me.
david1 Member	# Posted: 29 Apr 2008 20:37 Reply In that case then what is the issue with the ranking system? why does this topic exsist? If people are moaning they cant break the cl4 barrier to get access to funky toys, why are they doing so? Only thing I can think is that these are people who contribute to the community, and thus are providing a vital role, regardless of being a member of a team or doing hours upon hours of work. Maybe they should add a new criteria to the ranking system, "Community Support" promote someone on their efforts towards the community? After all, if it wasnt for all the "jesters" in the chatroom, how long would it take us to bore and leave?
polson Member	# Posted: 29 Apr 2008 20:46 Reply Character cannot always be quantified by work ethic and program contribution. We've had people rise in the ranks with no regard to the character they posess, or rather lack of character. This continually comes back to haunt us as a community.
master_chief Member	# Posted: 29 Apr 2008 20:58 Reply I have to agree with some of the more recent arguments. There's more to OTF than being in a department.
anthony_zuk Member	# Posted: 28 May 2008 00:04 Reply I had a whole load of stuff written out and I just deleted it because I realised that the point of my whole schpiel was that OTF is about chat and changing who can have custom avatars and all that malarky you've been going on about will just create controversy and it wont make any difference to the number of people coming back. I like things the way they are now and I think probably so do most people.
Amun Member	# Posted: 29 May 2008 20:18 Reply Hey, I think the department work to get out of CL4 is fine...But, if you're honestly entertaining the idea that it doesn't take the admiration/friendship/special treatment, of those higher than you, you're blinding yourself to the concept of human biased We all know, but those of us whom have benefited from it wont admit it, that if you're friends with the person who hands out promotions, you're getting promoted long before the person whom they don't like, for whatever personal reasons. I've read this seeing people skate around the issue here, "People rise in the ranks with no regard to their character" because they actually did work...Some people don't like Iain, but it's idiotic he gets pushed away from ranks for everything he's done for OTF. However, it happens a lot. People don't get promoted, when they deserve it, such as Korny, for example, because certain people don't like her It's a toolish display of power, OTF had become a contest of who can suck up more to the superiour officers. I'm glad to see that's actually changing, I hope it sticks.
kerr Member	# Posted: 29 May 2008 22:50 Reply I personally think the NCO ranks would add something, but what would the criteria be for them? Also, I think the requirement of being in a Department for CL5 and up is annoying at times, yet is a way to reward those who actively contribute to the Base as a whole. The idea that OTF is on the wane, is not true in my eyes, activity seems to be up.
aeon Member	# Posted: 30 May 2008 00:19 Reply Quoting: Amun I'm glad to see that's actually changing, I hope it sticks. It hasn't changed, and it won't change. This is OTF; led by people like you and I. It's like high school. If you're not friends with the cheerleaders and the football team, you're not cool, so you won't be invited to the party.
bria Member	# Posted: 30 May 2008 00:47 Reply That sounds so bitter.
majin_fett Member	# Posted: 30 May 2008 01:11 Reply Then how come I'm invited to the party?
fat_man Member	# Posted: 30 May 2008 02:45 Reply you brought a keg
polson Member	# Posted: 30 May 2008 03:13 Reply I'm not everybody's favorite person. And I cause plenty of trouble.
master_chief Member	# Posted: 30 May 2008 16:29 Reply Quoting: aeon It hasn't changed, and it won't change. With active, as well as people-focused leadership, it will change. Focusing on the positive results of contribution while also having a straightforward, unbiased leadership team will help this to happen. While I understand your party analogy, leaders should be above this sort of high school attitude. But, then again, one can only hope.
bria Member	# Posted: 30 May 2008 19:54 Reply Mike, Asim, and Polson can all come to my party.
polson Member	# Posted: 31 May 2008 01:21 Reply Yay!
fat_man Member	# Posted: 31 May 2008 02:28 Reply can i bring super hans?
bria Member	# Posted: 31 May 2008 13:21 Reply Bring whoever you want!
fat_man Member	# Posted: 2 Jun 2008 00:36 Reply yay!
david1 Member	# Posted: 3 Jun 2008 11:30 Reply ive had a brilliant idea for rewarding people, ill work on a page and then reveal all lol kinda stealing/reusing an idea from somthing else, but its fun and gives people things to aim for David
robert_atkins Member	# Posted: 3 Jun 2008 13:55 Reply Ok. I am a little late on this, I can only apologize for the lateness. Nonetheless, I feel the need to put my two sence in. Keep the Ranks. I think it gives us all something to shoot for, personally I have been working toward Lt. Cmdr. for years. I am still working and if I have to work harder than so be it. I do not however think that an expanded rank system is the way to go. It also helps noobs by knowing who to ask questions. We also need a better way for people who have in fact been here for years to advance. I think that if we have focused leadership and more focused people than things can get better. Second, get please get rid of the lame CL system! If someone is an Ensign call them an Ensign, if someone is a Captain call them Captain! this is just a personal pet peeve but I have said my peace on it. Change to one chatroom and keep it SciFi! if we have to have a second make it somewhere for dept. meetings.
polson Member	# Posted: 3 Jun 2008 14:48 Reply They used to have "ensign" and "captain" and all that ages ago. But when they introduced other genre's, such as Star Wars and Fantasy, not to mention the multi rank systems within them (elves, orcs, trolls, wookies, civilians, jedi, etc) it didn't make sense to keep the the ranking system so limited. As it expanded, it made more sense to use CL denominations so that you actually could tell what rank the Ewoks were. Because I haven't got them all memorized. Truth be told, I still only know the STar Trek ranking system by heart.
daecrist Member	# Posted: 4 Jun 2008 01:58 · Edited by: daecrist Reply People would get promoted if they would get recommended. I'd be happy to promote someone. I wish we had more people to promote. It's probably easier to be promoted now than it ever has been in the past. People aren't promoted because no one is making recommendations. No one is making recommendations because team members and team leaders aren't keeping track of what's going on in their areas. And at the bottom of it all is a general lack of initiative in teams and former departments either because of all the changes, lack of resources, or lack of people to actually keep things going like they once did. That's the real vicious cycle at the moment, not some vast shadow conspiracy of high CL people looking to make new people to the chat miserable. I'd love it if more new people came to the room and stuck around. I'd love it if they told their friends and they all came. We want to encourage people to hang out in the community and have a good time. The idea that we hand out the keys to a vast OTF power conspiracy to people when they hit CL7 is just ridiculous.
polson Member	# Posted: 4 Jun 2008 02:13 Reply I'm keaping track! But nobody on my team was on the list.
majin_fett Member	# Posted: 4 Jun 2008 02:29 Reply waves I make recommendations all the time.
daecrist Member	# Posted: 4 Jun 2008 04:16 · Edited by: daecrist Reply Oh hush. I know you two make recs and keep your teams running. The problem is that fewer and fewer people are taking the initiative to do that sort of thing these days. We only had four people show up on the promos list this past month, for example, and I know there were far more than that eligible.
tiamai Member	# Posted: 4 Jun 2008 14:29 Reply Just have to add that when I go to use the promotions system, I have no idea if those people merit a promotion or not. I am not in thier team, I don't know if they have worked for it or not. Most of the time, I don't even recognise them. It seems too much like a 'vote' to me. Perhaps a reccomendation from a team leader should be enough instead of hoping that someone bothers to 'vote' for you too? And no, I can't get tehidea of it being a vote out of my mind.
polson Member	# Posted: 4 Jun 2008 15:33 Reply I think CL4's should be able to make recs. A lot (not all) of CL5 + don't chat as much anymore because they're busy. Or digrunted. Or both. But there is almost ALWAYS A CL4 in chat and I think it would help when it comes to recommending new CL2's.
master_chief Member	# Posted: 6 Jun 2008 00:38 Reply Quoting: polson I think CL4's should be able to make recs. I'd have to definately agree with this... even for the lower CL recs. It would pretty much simplify the process and keep things moving. I mean, I for one know each and every person in the chat... even if I don't like that person's attitude I still try to remain civil but I can tell a respectful person that would add value to the community if given the chance. I can vouch also for the fact that some aren't promoted because no one reccomends them. This situation has happened to me. I mean, I think that honestly people should take the time to understand and reflect on the time when they were in a period of limbo in a lower CL position and how they felt when they wanted to get to that higher position to have a role in leadership or to direct community affairs and understand also that among the juniors there is a lot of potential for that. Quoting: daecrist The problem is that fewer and fewer people are taking the initiative to do that sort of thing these days Those who are in leadership positions on teams or elsewhere must be held accountable. If you want people to be motivated to contribute then there must be across the board expectations and a follow through on these expectations when they aren't met. I mean, it's your choice what to say, do, or expect of TL's and senior members here but when they don't do the simple reccomendation process over and over, don't you assume it will cause those who are doing the work and contributing to become resentful? I think that a showcase of the work a person has done should be attached to the promotion list as a link as some way to gauge whether that person has contributed enough for that promotion. Some variant of that idea may be helpful.
rpmobsession Member	# Posted: 6 Jun 2008 04:52 Reply People stop recommending people for promotions when they see their promotions are doing nothing in helping the person. I mean, I shouldn't have to bombard the promotion system with recommendations of one person for months and months and months on end. I played that game for a couple months, and I got bored of it.