Changes at OTF (1)

daecrist
Member

# Posted: 30 Oct 2007 07:48

There's been a lot of animated discussion on the forums lately about the future of the Outpost. Concern about empty chat rooms and the direction the community can take.

There are a lot of changes that I would like to see made at OTF. There are a lot of things that I wouldn't change one bit because it's part of the community that we've grown to know and love over the past ten years. Basically we just need space to evolve and tweak the existing system to adapt to changes in the sci-fi/fantasy community.

The problem we have right now is hardware.

To call the old OTF server outdated is an understatement. Right now the site is running thanks largely to Iain's hard work optimizing the current system and keeping it running. We need to move to a new server, and we've been working on that. But moving something as big as OTF to a new host isn't simple to begin with, and we have to find a place that can provide stability, the proper hardware for the site, and the proper price range.

Right now Andrew is working on new hosting options. In the meantime we're limited in what we can do with the site for the simple reason that the old workhorse that has powered OTF simply can't take it anymore.

So I'd like to ask that everyone please be patient. Despite what you may have read elsewhere from members of the EC, Andrew, Hong, and I are all painfully aware of the problems facing OTF at the moment, and we're all working furiously on overcoming this big stumbling block so that we can move on with the site.

I'll keep everyone updated as the situation progresses, and try to make things a bit more transparent in the future so that you guys know that we are in fact out there working on the site. Heck, I might even set up a QC blog or something to keep people updated if there's interest. My goal is to serve the community, and I realize that we've fallen short of that goal by being so tight-lipped about what's going on up to this point.

So I apologize, promise to try and keep everyone updated in the future, and ask that you all remain patient while we make this transition.

-HAL
OTF Quadrant Commander

daecrist
Member

# Posted: 30 Oct 2007 08:19

At the moment we're crossing hurdles as they come.

I have things I'd like to see added and changed at OTF, but I think largely it's about what the community wants.

majin_fett
Member

# Posted: 30 Oct 2007 09:34

I'm having a Scotty moment.

"Cap'n! The engines cannae take it anymore!"

aeon
Member

# Posted: 31 Oct 2007 05:22

Majin having a Scotty moment kinda scares me.

Does that mean, I have to have an Obi-Wan Kenobi moment soon?

data
Member

# Posted: 19 Nov 2007 02:43

I don't see why hardware is such a big issue tbh. I am pretty sure the box OTF right now is being colocated. Just change over to a hosted box instead at one of the many datacenter in the US. I have experience with a few with excellent uptime (99.99% SLA) and pricing + KVM/IP if you need more control.

I don't think it would cost more than $100 per month to keep this place up and running. Shelling out for a new server to be colocated will probably require too big of an initial investment, which might not be worth it.

kaela_donos
Member

# Posted: 6 Mar 2008 13:52

I would like to note, i have been in the chat rooms allot this month and about 40% of the time i have been int he outpost there have been people in more then one room! There has not been one incident of people being in more then two rooms however.

mezoti
Member

# Posted: 15 Apr 2008 19:47

And people are busy with real life, and stuff takes time to /do/.

Besides, much goes on behind the scenes that no one at all sees.

Brandi

dierna
Member

# Posted: 15 Apr 2008 22:46

Quoting: crazytexan

Adding the 'snog' option to the armory will solve ALL of OTF's problems

And it will confuse the heck out of folks who don't know WTF snogging is!!

daecrist
Member

# Posted: 16 Apr 2008 02:20

Quoting: babel

Quoting: mezoti
And people are busy with real life, and stuff takes time to /do/.

Besides, much goes on behind the scenes that no one at all sees.

Six months, though? It is a valid question. Don't you think?

Six months?

In late January Andrew announced that he would be stepping down. Just coordinating the handover and rearranging of staff positions at the top level took a couple of weeks and brought us into early to mid February.

By that time, (early to mid February, or ~1 month since Andrew officially stepped down), the Outpost server was in danger of being shut down in a matter of weeks if we didn't raise enough money to move to a new server. So we had to frantically try to raise the roughly $800 needed to facilitate the server move in what amounted to about three weeks time.

We managed to meet that goal by the end of February and switch the Outpost over with the major functions working. This took a hell of an effort on Iain's part to have the Outpost move from the old server to the new server without a major interruption in service. This brings us into early March.

For most of March there were a thousand minor but critical annoying details that had to be worked out. Also in that time Iain, who handles all of the Outpost technical stuff at the server level, got busy with finals, projects, and a one week visit from his girlfriend, so he was understandably not able to give as much attention to ironing out bugs as he might otherwise have done, and I don't begrudge him one second of that personal time. At the end of March he came back and we ironed out some remaining problems with the mail servers, FTP access, and the DMS. This brings us to the beginning of April.

Now, in early April, we can finally start to make some changes to the site itself. So basically it's taken us about three months of non-stop work and late night tinkering to make sure that the site is working exactly like it did on the old server, only faster.

But before we could go tinkering with the system, and in light of the whole debacle with Alivan messing with critical systems, we wanted to set up a secure way to back up the site. Getting all of that set up and coordinated took another week or so. Allowing for time off in the real world here and there that brings us to the present day where the flying monkeys in InDev are about to be let loose on the chat room to effect some of the major changes that we wanted to make.

As I've said before, and I will say again and again until it gets through to you: We are making every effort to keep the community running and improve it. Unfortunately the place was on life support for a long while there and it's taken this long to fix things up to the point that we can move ahead. If you want to add something constructive to the debate or contribute then by all means feel free to join a department or put in your two cents. If all you care to do is piss and moan with a defeatist attitude then you can move along.

polson
Member

# Posted: 16 Apr 2008 04:21

And Iain had to fix my email too. Let's not forget that.

babel
Member

# Posted: 16 Apr 2008 06:12 · Edited by: babel

No one is disputing there was a lot of work to be done behind the scenes and perhaps my tone can be seen as pessimistic but I try to present worst-case scenarios so they don't actually come to pass.

I just think the communication between the decision making and the membership is not good. People Have been saying that they know nothing of what is going on �" we even had an EC member say in the chat that nothing was decided because you guys couldn’t agree on anything. If that is our only current information, is it any wonder that people are confused? I know of formerly active people who have left and it’s hard to replace those people. Trivias lately are poorly attended and often postponed due to lack of participants and it’s heartbreaking for those who work for them.

All I am saying is that people need to know what is happening. I understand that the technical issues have been time consuming, but please don’t nglect to keep the community involved.

Andrew, please could you drop the insults, by the way? It's not like you talking to me like that is gonna make me go away.

mezoti
Member

# Posted: 16 Apr 2008 12:02 · Edited by: mezoti

Everything HAL said has been correct - Iain and Ohm and the rest of InDev has worked franticly to fix things that no one sees. Do you really want an update everything Iain fixes something? I get them, I'll gladly forward the emails and IM's I get that say "It took me three hours to track down a bug .. IT WAS A COMMA IN A PROGRAM" or whatever else happened.

Right now, the technical side is just more important to keep OTF running and not falling apart. Y'all remember when OTF fell apart every trivia, right? Would you rather we focus on the new teams, etc, with OTF falling apart every moment? I doubt it.

And if you want the world from the technical side - pay Iain and Ohm to commit to OTF fully. Which will never happen. Besides, Ohm has a wife, job, and a bird (yay Wilson!). Iain has finals, a thesis, and me. Of which, he'll be with me three weeks next month. And you'll bet he won't be doing a damn thing on the server.

majin_fett
Member

# Posted: 16 Apr 2008 16:46

I'm just going to blame Skrulls. What I'm blaming the Skrulls on is up to debate.

lzrman
Member

# Posted: 16 Apr 2008 22:17

Canada?! Why we blaming the rich nation of Canadian Blood?!

char
Member

# Posted: 17 Apr 2008 05:05 · Edited by: char

Quoting: mezoti

Iain has finals, a thesis, and me. Of which, he'll be with me three weeks next month. And you'll bet he won't be doing a damn thing on the server.

YOU GO GIRL!! Wow what happened to the sweet little Mezzie i used to chat with all the time?! LOL She's FIESTY!

Author	Message
daecrist Member	# Posted: 30 Oct 2007 07:48 There's been a lot of animated discussion on the forums lately about the future of the Outpost. Concern about empty chat rooms and the direction the community can take. There are a lot of changes that I would like to see made at OTF. There are a lot of things that I wouldn't change one bit because it's part of the community that we've grown to know and love over the past ten years. Basically we just need space to evolve and tweak the existing system to adapt to changes in the sci-fi/fantasy community. The problem we have right now is hardware. To call the old OTF server outdated is an understatement. Right now the site is running thanks largely to Iain's hard work optimizing the current system and keeping it running. We need to move to a new server, and we've been working on that. But moving something as big as OTF to a new host isn't simple to begin with, and we have to find a place that can provide stability, the proper hardware for the site, and the proper price range. Right now Andrew is working on new hosting options. In the meantime we're limited in what we can do with the site for the simple reason that the old workhorse that has powered OTF simply can't take it anymore. So I'd like to ask that everyone please be patient. Despite what you may have read elsewhere from members of the EC, Andrew, Hong, and I are all painfully aware of the problems facing OTF at the moment, and we're all working furiously on overcoming this big stumbling block so that we can move on with the site. I'll keep everyone updated as the situation progresses, and try to make things a bit more transparent in the future so that you guys know that we are in fact out there working on the site. Heck, I might even set up a QC blog or something to keep people updated if there's interest. My goal is to serve the community, and I realize that we've fallen short of that goal by being so tight-lipped about what's going on up to this point. So I apologize, promise to try and keep everyone updated in the future, and ask that you all remain patient while we make this transition. -HAL OTF Quadrant Commander
bria Member	# Posted: 30 Oct 2007 08:04 More open-ness might help, yeah. I knew that the server is old and "over-worked" but that's mainly because Iain visited me and talked about it. Most people don't have that. So yeah. I think it'd be a good idea to be more open about what's going on behind the scenes. There's no reason to keep everything a secret, really. I'm pretty sure that no one is going to get annoyed or offended or anything else if we're told a bit more! And, hardware aside - do you guys have any idea about what you DO want to change once you can?
daecrist Member	# Posted: 30 Oct 2007 08:19 At the moment we're crossing hurdles as they come. I have things I'd like to see added and changed at OTF, but I think largely it's about what the community wants.
sg8472 Member	# Posted: 30 Oct 2007 09:00 Definitely a good thing! Anything that helps members understand and voice their opinions on decisions being made by those in command will undoubtedly help matters. The more communication we have, the better we can understand the situations facing us all. So, thanks for keeping us informed.
majin_fett Member	# Posted: 30 Oct 2007 09:34 I'm having a Scotty moment. "Cap'n! The engines cannae take it anymore!"
dierna Member	# Posted: 30 Oct 2007 19:30 Well.. at least we know now instead of being kept in the dark. Finding a server would indeed be top priority before implimenting any changes.
aeon Member	# Posted: 31 Oct 2007 05:22 Majin having a Scotty moment kinda scares me. Does that mean, I have to have an Obi-Wan Kenobi moment soon?
majin_fett Member	# Posted: 31 Oct 2007 09:33 Yes. Yes, you can.
data Member	# Posted: 19 Nov 2007 02:43 I don't see why hardware is such a big issue tbh. I am pretty sure the box OTF right now is being colocated. Just change over to a hosted box instead at one of the many datacenter in the US. I have experience with a few with excellent uptime (99.99% SLA) and pricing + KVM/IP if you need more control. I don't think it would cost more than $100 per month to keep this place up and running. Shelling out for a new server to be colocated will probably require too big of an initial investment, which might not be worth it.
lzrman Member	# Posted: 21 Nov 2007 00:23 100$ which could easily be supported by a member account ! Using the rest for upgrades and services.
kaela_donos Member	# Posted: 6 Mar 2008 13:52 I would like to note, i have been in the chat rooms allot this month and about 40% of the time i have been int he outpost there have been people in more then one room! There has not been one incident of people being in more then two rooms however.
babel Member	# Posted: 14 Apr 2008 21:59 I have an idea. Why don;t some changes that address the core problems, mainly a lack of new visitors and a declining membership, actually take place? This thread was started in October. It is now April. You do know that OTF is dying on its arse, yeah? And if you don't act soon there will be nothing left to save?
mezoti Member	# Posted: 15 Apr 2008 19:47 And people are busy with real life, and stuff takes time to /do/. Besides, much goes on behind the scenes that no one at all sees. Brandi
crazytexan Member	# Posted: 15 Apr 2008 20:24 Adding the 'snog' option to the armory will solve ALL of OTF's problems. nod It will make visitors feel welcome, maintains camaraderie between current members, and will help to propel OTF to the forefront as an online dating/socializing site. Snogfest '08 URL Vote, and let your snogging be heard!
dierna Member	# Posted: 15 Apr 2008 22:46 Quoting: crazytexan Adding the 'snog' option to the armory will solve ALL of OTF's problems And it will confuse the heck out of folks who don't know WTF snogging is!!
babel Member	# Posted: 16 Apr 2008 00:59 Quoting: mezoti And people are busy with real life, and stuff takes time to /do/. Besides, much goes on behind the scenes that no one at all sees. Six months, though? It is a valid question. Don't you think?
daecrist Member	# Posted: 16 Apr 2008 02:20 Quoting: babel Quoting: mezoti And people are busy with real life, and stuff takes time to /do/. Besides, much goes on behind the scenes that no one at all sees. Six months, though? It is a valid question. Don't you think? Six months? In late January Andrew announced that he would be stepping down. Just coordinating the handover and rearranging of staff positions at the top level took a couple of weeks and brought us into early to mid February. By that time, (early to mid February, or ~1 month since Andrew officially stepped down), the Outpost server was in danger of being shut down in a matter of weeks if we didn't raise enough money to move to a new server. So we had to frantically try to raise the roughly $800 needed to facilitate the server move in what amounted to about three weeks time. We managed to meet that goal by the end of February and switch the Outpost over with the major functions working. This took a hell of an effort on Iain's part to have the Outpost move from the old server to the new server without a major interruption in service. This brings us into early March. For most of March there were a thousand minor but critical annoying details that had to be worked out. Also in that time Iain, who handles all of the Outpost technical stuff at the server level, got busy with finals, projects, and a one week visit from his girlfriend, so he was understandably not able to give as much attention to ironing out bugs as he might otherwise have done, and I don't begrudge him one second of that personal time. At the end of March he came back and we ironed out some remaining problems with the mail servers, FTP access, and the DMS. This brings us to the beginning of April. Now, in early April, we can finally start to make some changes to the site itself. So basically it's taken us about three months of non-stop work and late night tinkering to make sure that the site is working exactly like it did on the old server, only faster. But before we could go tinkering with the system, and in light of the whole debacle with Alivan messing with critical systems, we wanted to set up a secure way to back up the site. Getting all of that set up and coordinated took another week or so. Allowing for time off in the real world here and there that brings us to the present day where the flying monkeys in InDev are about to be let loose on the chat room to effect some of the major changes that we wanted to make. As I've said before, and I will say again and again until it gets through to you: We are making every effort to keep the community running and improve it. Unfortunately the place was on life support for a long while there and it's taken this long to fix things up to the point that we can move ahead. If you want to add something constructive to the debate or contribute then by all means feel free to join a department or put in your two cents. If all you care to do is piss and moan with a defeatist attitude then you can move along.
osiris Member	# Posted: 16 Apr 2008 03:20 Quoting: babel Six months, though? It is a valid question. Don't you think? Well, Jeremy. Some people really do have real lives that require them to focus on that, and not things on the computer, and these busy times, really can last for 6 months. and obviously when people do get time to work, things can come up. like the Alivan thing, and personally I'd rather have security holes fixed, and wait a few extra months to be sure that won't happen again, and wait for the little niceties. I don't see why it's so horrible that things have been delayed, This is how the world works. There are delays for new toys. It's going to happen, they haven't stopped working it.
polson Member	# Posted: 16 Apr 2008 04:21 And Iain had to fix my email too. Let's not forget that.
hobbie Moderator	# Posted: 16 Apr 2008 05:55 He also added the Hadoken armory function. That was the most necessary change of all.
babel Member	# Posted: 16 Apr 2008 06:12 · Edited by: babel No one is disputing there was a lot of work to be done behind the scenes and perhaps my tone can be seen as pessimistic but I try to present worst-case scenarios so they don't actually come to pass. I just think the communication between the decision making and the membership is not good. People Have been saying that they know nothing of what is going on �" we even had an EC member say in the chat that nothing was decided because you guys couldn’t agree on anything. If that is our only current information, is it any wonder that people are confused? I know of formerly active people who have left and it’s hard to replace those people. Trivias lately are poorly attended and often postponed due to lack of participants and it’s heartbreaking for those who work for them. All I am saying is that people need to know what is happening. I understand that the technical issues have been time consuming, but please don’t nglect to keep the community involved. Andrew, please could you drop the insults, by the way? It's not like you talking to me like that is gonna make me go away.
char Member	# Posted: 16 Apr 2008 07:25 I'm just glad the OTF is still here. It took me forever to find it when i first looked for it. I have had so many memories here, and had to take a break from being online enough to actually chat. You know, full time work, plus full time college, all the home work, running my own business, church, AND falling in love and getting married sorta eats up all time. but I finally have my own lap top so the hubby and I dont have to share computers any more. Im here again several times a week. While I miss a lot of people i've yet to see i'm glad to see it is still fairly active, and hope that continues! yaya for OTF the bestest chatroom!
mezoti Member	# Posted: 16 Apr 2008 12:02 · Edited by: mezoti Everything HAL said has been correct - Iain and Ohm and the rest of InDev has worked franticly to fix things that no one sees. Do you really want an update everything Iain fixes something? I get them, I'll gladly forward the emails and IM's I get that say "It took me three hours to track down a bug .. IT WAS A COMMA IN A PROGRAM" or whatever else happened. Right now, the technical side is just more important to keep OTF running and not falling apart. Y'all remember when OTF fell apart every trivia, right? Would you rather we focus on the new teams, etc, with OTF falling apart every moment? I doubt it. And if you want the world from the technical side - pay Iain and Ohm to commit to OTF fully. Which will never happen. Besides, Ohm has a wife, job, and a bird (yay Wilson!). Iain has finals, a thesis, and me. Of which, he'll be with me three weeks next month. And you'll bet he won't be doing a damn thing on the server.
daecrist Member	# Posted: 16 Apr 2008 12:08 Quoting: babel No one is disputing there was a lot of work to be done behind the scenes and perhaps my tone can be seen as pessimistic but I try to present worst-case scenarios so they don't actually come to pass. Babel, please stop trying to dress your trolling up as something noble. You're not shaking things up or calling it how you see it, you're just griping and complaining anywhere you think people might listen. You had an opportunity to help shape things from the top down and instead you resigned and washed your hands of this place in a petulant huff. So please stop trying to troll those of us who stuck around and are trying to make this place work. We've been keeping the community informed of major changes and Team Leaders are all in touch with the leadership as well trying to coordinate things there. There hasn't been much to report for the past month or so because most of the activity has been minor technical fixes in preparation for some of the bigger changes. We're not trying to be secretive and we're not trying to keep the community out of the loop, we just don't want to bore everyone to tears with Iain's voluminous technical notes.
majin_fett Member	# Posted: 16 Apr 2008 16:46 I'm just going to blame Skrulls. What I'm blaming the Skrulls on is up to debate.
dierna Member	# Posted: 16 Apr 2008 18:35 Quoting: majin_fett I'm just going to blame Skrulls. What I'm blaming the Skrulls on is up to debate. Good idea... blame the Skrulls...or Canada....either way works.
lzrman Member	# Posted: 16 Apr 2008 22:17 Canada?! Why we blaming the rich nation of Canadian Blood?!
dierna Member	# Posted: 16 Apr 2008 23:10 Quoting: lzrman Canada?! Why we blaming the rich nation of Canadian Blood?! Cuz Canada is easy to pick on..duh... plus the song "Blame Canada" from the South Park movie that was nominated for an Oscar.. lol
char Member	# Posted: 17 Apr 2008 05:05 · Edited by: char Quoting: mezoti Iain has finals, a thesis, and me. Of which, he'll be with me three weeks next month. And you'll bet he won't be doing a damn thing on the server. YOU GO GIRL!! Wow what happened to the sweet little Mezzie i used to chat with all the time?! LOL She's FIESTY!
polson Member	# Posted: 17 Apr 2008 06:13 One day we'll get America for that song, one day. Oh wait! We already did! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7jlFZhprU4&feature =related Ahahahaha. I might have just derailed this thread in an ugly direction. I'm just giong to say, Dierna started it.


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