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Message |
polson
Member
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# Posted: 14 Jan 2008 15:20
Reply
Quoting: babel I started coming to OTF when I was 31 and have talked with all kinds of people of all ages. Yeah, I've seen simming with lightsabers . . not for me, that BUT I have taken part in virtual events like foodfights. I like the polyglot nature of the chats. Not worry about welcoming in new members? What? This is one of our BIGGEST problems - that when new people do come in, they see the established groups and are put off by that. That people are so engrossed in their own chats that a newcomer is overlooked and possibly ignored. Establish an 'oldies' room where we can sit and talk quietly and not be bothered by those pesky newcomers? Not an idea this old-timer would support.
I whole heartedly agree.
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polson
Member
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# Posted: 14 Jan 2008 15:22
Reply
Quoting: Feeble What's the point in trying to get newbies to come if the old-farts (and now I'm going to use that term in its full disdain, not given their time and devotion to the place, but the mentality of some people) don't want to encourage and foster love for the place IN THE CHAT?!
This old fart says "AMEN SISTA!"
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ice
Member
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# Posted: 15 Jan 2008 03:12
Reply
ok i read this entire thread & omg how didn't i spot this sooner AJ you put in your Essay everything i've been trying to say, maybe your first point is the reason I was never actually listened too, a lolely CL4  But i definately agree with everything in your post!
My main point in regard the "activity" of members is the big thing in my mind, back in the good ole days, I used to log in & see a tonne of dept leaders. Nowadays I have to track them down, dont get a response to emails & need to use TL's who still cant contact them for like a week (sometimes longer) THAT IS A KEY ISSUE. Nothing can happy because the "command" in certain areas aren't active, and even then theirs problems.
I'd like to point out some names, FM, Dmitri & Majin Kaze....very active members. Give them full departments, FM is sat as an ATL of Specops...He should be running the dept he is on every day, i can contact him pretty much any time of the day & he has a willingness to help. Their are more than I mentioned but in my Timezone (from about 8am until 2am) I can contact them easily without fair and if i e-mail i get a response in the morning if not within the hour. Im sure timezone wouldnt affect their mail response to much.
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kitty_gg
Member
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# Posted: 15 Jan 2008 09:11
Reply
There is far to much inactivity from the "older" generation of chat, maybe this is due to the newbies that come in and over use the bar, or even over use diffrent things.
Simming in the room, i cant stand that but again it is easy to ignore or "rubber ear" but if the generations did split, then they newbies wouldnt have a clue, most are clueless even now and that is with people hardly entering chat that are of the older bunch.
To get hold of someone in 10f is like trying to catch a fish in a puddle, it isnt possible. Or well maybe a few months later you finally come along the person. Maybe more like an 0845 number you get passed around that much that you end up hanging up and ignoring what u wanted to say. Far to much re-direction to many of the ones who are active do not have the answers or the power to do anything until a few months down the line the person you needed comes on and cant be bothered with the Q's ... so suggestion is get more active members in command.
And again no names, but there is to many "power mad" folk with possitions, and realistically i feel some of the command should take these folk to the side and let them know the lower cl's dont like getting picked on. Just makes folks leave or avoid chat when these certain folks do appear.
Anyhow just a suggestion but thats my thoughts. Ignore them or not its the opinion of a lowly cl4
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fat_man
Member
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# Posted: 15 Jan 2008 15:34
Reply
Quoting: ice I'd like to point out some names, FM, Dmitri & Majin Kaze....very active members. Give them full departments, FM is sat as an ATL of Specops...He should be running the dept he is on every day, i can contact him pretty much any time of the day & he has a willingness to help.
I only do it for the luls =(
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majin_fett
Member
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# Posted: 15 Jan 2008 16:36
Reply
It's a sad day when someone other than me (because, despite being a hero worshiper, I still can be a megalomaniac) thinks that I should run a department. 
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ajcardall
Member
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# Posted: 15 Jan 2008 17:48
Reply
My thread is l33t to the max
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darth_balco
Member
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# Posted: 15 Jan 2008 21:21
Reply
Indeed it is!
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darth_balco
Member
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# Posted: 15 Jan 2008 21:48
Reply
Also, I think what would help OTF at this point if we just try to find someway to bring back some members. You know, 2 years ago at this point, this place was still full of people and was active.
I don't know how, but maybe just simply talking about anything would work. I remember I was in the chat a few days ago when for the first time in a long while, there was a pretty decent conversation going on. It would be great to have more of those days more often.
Of course, I think the fact that these little cliques show up way too much in chat and kinda makes people not wanting to comeback. Sometimes I come into chat and see members babble about nonsense and make inside jokes that make no sense to me and probably to many other members as well. Kinda makes me not want to stick around if all that ever happens in the chat these days if people talking to only their cliques with their nonsense babble and basically ignore everyone else.
I understand that cliques are natural, they're a part of human interaction. We all have our close circle of friends and stuff. However, in a place where everyone can interact with each other and talk about anything, all that clique talk and inside jokes doesn't help in such a setting. But that's just me, I could be wrong. I just remember the old days where people could talk for hours and not feel left out.
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kitty_gg
Member
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# Posted: 16 Jan 2008 04:02
Reply
Darth Balco I agree, there is to many "groups" of people, they get along well and ignore everyone else, one group in particular makes me not want to enter chat. When a group is inside and ignore each and every post from others it gives an unwelcome vibe, and New people who enter the place feel unwelcome.
My very first time in OTF (Im afriad to say) I swore id never return the experience was not friendly, One person out of around 9 welcomed me and spoke to me, Cellblock i havent seen him in a while, he actually was such a nice person. Ever since I have picked up on certain people who actually speak to me, but other than that the rest ignore. It may be personal I dont know but it does create an unwelcoming setting to be in, and it does not create that high influx of people OTF wants. Im sure many people feel this way, there will always be a feeling of dislike within the chat not everyone can get along but for the sake of getting the new members staying maybe being civil would help.
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ice
Member
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# Posted: 16 Jan 2008 04:09
Reply
Kazeman although I named you i was referring more to the genre are high ranked active members who show a face in the room Dont feel too good about yourself that can only mean bad for me if you get all trigger happy
I understand theirs groups in OTF, I mean hell I can talk to Ohm, FM etc about coding and some people are bound to be sat their wondering what the hell were talking about. I know not everyone can understand every topic & thats fair enough no-one can expect that, when people talk about the latest tv im lost & sit on the sideline for it, the point is just the common polite matter of saying hello to people,
Since "returning" after my recent lack of net, I have found that i've missed alot of whats happened (even after keeping up with my dept mail etc) it still means I lost the room itself, theirs so many new groups around & the command changed in some odd ways etc But i agree whole-heartedly that if people were generally nicer, i mean hell im sure not half the people who talk to me actually like me in the slightest, i can accept that its just a matter of keeping it out the room which isn't always something people are willing to do.
But yeah I definately think the common advise of "if you dont like someone ignore them" should be replacedwith "if you dont like someone, be civil"
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fat_man
Member
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# Posted: 16 Jan 2008 05:10
Reply
Quoting: kitty_gg Cellblock i havent seen him in a while, he actually was such a nice person.
He's forgot all about us and living in South Africa these days.
Quoting: ice I can talk to Ohm, FM etc about coding and some people are bound to be sat their wondering what the hell were talking about.
point in case are there any LPC MUD programmers out there? who want to help me make a MUD? I offer Cookies
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polson
Member
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# Posted: 16 Jan 2008 08:19
Reply
Just in the defense of old timers because I am one and I hate getting lumped into the category of people who never come to chat and are mean to newbies, I have some points.
1. I'm mean to everybody at some point.
2. Cliques happen. No matter where you go, no matter what you do. You will sooner or later have to deal with it. If you can't, then go home and lock yourself in a room with a good book. "She won't play with me!" is so grade 3 and to be fair whining to the teachers about it never solved anything anyway. People will always get along better with certain people and less well with others. That said, Ice is right "if you don't like someone, be civil". Unless you're like me and you're mean to everybody. Equal rights!
3. Inside jokes happen. I've been here for a very long time and I STILL don't have a handle on the inside jokes. I know inside jokes that no one else knows. None of this stops me from commenting in anything and everything.
4. I do comment on everything and anything, and even if no one else is paying any attention to me in chat (which is rather common) I'm still having fun, even if I'm having a conversation with myself. And sooner or later, people can't ignore you anymore and have to let you join the conversation.
5. Someone who enters chat and says "hi" and then sits back to wait for conversation then whines about how they've been ignored is never going to enjoy OTF. Try it in real life and see how it works; conversation's take effort.
For people who don't read well, in the above I did not say the following:
Newbies are stupid, we don't want them here.
Oldtimers are better than newcomers.
Cliques are good.
Cliques are bad.
Inside jokes are good.
Inside jokes are bad.
I'm always nice to everybody.
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aeon
Member
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# Posted: 16 Jan 2008 08:27
Reply
I wanted to reply to this, but Polson came first, and I agree with her, so I shall say no more.
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polson
Member
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# Posted: 16 Jan 2008 08:45
Reply
w00t! Someoen agrees with me!
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polson
Member
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# Posted: 16 Jan 2008 09:21
Reply
Just one other addition...
People make friends at different rates and in different ways.
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stewie
Member
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# Posted: 2 Jun 2008 02:41 · Edited by: stewie
Reply
Well the question I would ask is what do you want to save
the community
or the html chat interface.
Want to know whats driving people away its the fact that html chat rooms are on the decline.
Virtual worlds are the future.
Places like second life and world of warcraft have millions of subscribers.
Now i aint suggesting anyone at OTF can build a virtual world.
I am suggestion OTF could "move" to a virtual world.
A PG island on second life dosn't cost as much as a MATURE one.
If you can set it up as having "educational" use its even cheaper.
It's just a suggestion, one I came up with over two years ago, but then people protested that HTML chat was going to survive forever. Sad fact is I've seen a lot more people move from HTML based chat to Virtual world servers.
Consider Second life a server. Your Island Sim as the chat room.
theres more than enough members here even with a 1 dollar contrabution a month to be able to buy a full island and the possbility of getting more people involved.
but yeah.
Html chat is pretty defunct. now its on its last legs. Eventually it will be replaced entirely by new worlds.
A jpg avatar is no where as interesting to the newer generation of computer users than one that can navigate a 3D enviorment, change its clothes etc.
just my 2 cents don't take them to be worth anything more than that.
Of course for the neighsayers i'll say it for you
Antiquicated old p.o.s computers can not use it
Nor can people at work probablly.
Kids and Adults would require different grids.
PLUS SIDE
Secondlife is 100 percent user created content. Meaning theres a whole new world of skills such as building, scripting to learn.
Currently the "projects" are nothing super fantastic. You can actually VIRTUALLY build and script stuff in SL.
Imagine the change that could make to tired old department pages. Who views web pages other than vlogs, utube and social networking sites these days?
Nadda, no one unless its "shopping" no one wants to read book reviews these days.
Time to step back and seriously ask what really needs to be done.
Is it cliques, or nasty senior officers or meanies that are keeping people away, or is it because like the dinosaur the community is not striving to evolve as fast as its surroundings. Adapt and survie. Stay stationary and die.
Not hoping to sell it too much here, it is simply the only virtual world in which you could literally create anything of any theme... just gotta make sure the coffiers are healthy enough to pay for it.
No offense is intended here. It is simply the view from my side of the room. If you feel differently that is your right to do so, but I'm sure I'm not that unique that I'm "completely" wrong.
Just looked at users on line on the webs leading HTML chat right now 1770 users.
Just looked at SL online right now 51,129.
1770 HTML users on the leading HTML chat
51,129 Virtual world users on the leading virtual world chat.
thats a difference of 49 thousand people favouring a virtual chat. And its not even peek time.
Or counting those countless others in virtual world GAMES such as wow.
I can look around a lot of old html sites and see memberships declining, and I can see why. It's simply not as interesting to the "majority"
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polson
Member
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# Posted: 2 Jun 2008 04:18
Reply
I like the HTML chat format. I just prefer it. I've poked around other chats - I can honestly say if the HTML chat format got dumped, I'd probably chat 90% less.
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dierna
Member
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# Posted: 2 Jun 2008 10:27
Reply
Stewie:
Lesse.. 2nd life or HTML... Well for one it costs $10 a month to use the chat feature. With the free version of 2nd life there's no chat feature available....Im poor right now... $10 is ALOT of money these days. Now add the maintenence for land...that's extra! $5 a month for 612 square meters (or is that miles?) up to $295 a month. That's over $300 a month. Do people really pay for that???
Now right now for OTF I just post on the forum. Don't have much time to chat. But I like HTML chats. Yes I do go to an MMORPG (not 2nd life, I play in Toontown Online).
There are several free to use things similar to 2nd Life. Like Kaneva (you can have an apartment, a job, ect), or IMVU (free up to a point really. I think it costs a bit more to update your avatar). There's also BoomBang (well it's for kids but anybody can use it...it's free and you get your own island) and tons of other free ones.
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demonvamp
Member
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# Posted: 2 Jun 2008 15:24 · Edited by: demonvamp
Reply
My laptop can't handle Second life. So that would be pointless for me.
It's only three years old, so not as antiquated as you might think.
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stewie
Member
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# Posted: 2 Jun 2008 17:47
Reply
well it's actually free registration, it's only 10 dollars a month if you want to enter "adult" locations and "own" land.
buying currency can be done via pay pal. And it would be the otf command who would need to own the land.. which square meters a full sim could easily have a virtual out post building mega prims and such.
but any way MY point was not a few people have a nostgalic "prefrence" too.
Just where is all the NEW blood going.
how many people do you need here to keep it a "community" rather than a few people?
how many does the numbers have to decline to in order to say "try something new"
It may not be version 3 this time round....but i'd keep ithe idea on the back burner for serious consideration for implimentation with in 5 years..
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cleo_soul
Member
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# Posted: 3 Jun 2008 01:03
Reply
My Computer can't handle 2nd life, it can handle IMVU but not 2nd Life or any other virtural rooms like 2nd life.
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daecrist
Member
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# Posted: 4 Jun 2008 01:45
Reply
Please point me to someone who can build a fully immersive 3D rendering of the Outpost that can run on platforms from the crappiest old clunker to the most state of the art gaming rig, and do it all for free with no bugs.
Then we'll talk.
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polson
Member
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# Posted: 4 Jun 2008 02:11
Reply
My sarcasm detector just went bizark.
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daecrist
Member
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# Posted: 4 Jun 2008 04:22
Reply
Quoting: polson My sarcasm detector just went bizark.
Well if someone could come up with a plan to implement something that elaborate for free I'd be all for it. The problem is that we have limited resources and finances, and there seems to be a lot of calls for stuff that's just plain impossible at the Outpost as it stands right now.
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david1
Member
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# Posted: 4 Jun 2008 07:55
Reply
Moving OTF into second life wouldnt be too hard (if money was not an issue)
However thats NOT what otf is about, you seem to think that OTF is just a HTML chat, and thats 100% not true, it (or it was) an involved community you could just drop into at a whym and chat to freinds, play some games, use it for research, meet people with simular interests, do things at your own pace, find help from people, work on projects together, develop life skills (believe it or not)
Second life couldnt do half of that, no virtual world could truely replace what OTF is.
Please point me to someone who can build a fully immersive 3D rendering of the Outpost
 i know someone
that can run on platforms from the crappiest old clunker to the most state of the art gaming rig
I couldnt agree more, OTF shouldnt be limiting itself to users of powerfull machines. Yes the technology is moving fast, but peoples pockets arnt, plus 3rd world countires are waking up to the internet, and i believe OTF should be open to all.
A jpg avatar is no where as interesting to the newer generation of computer users than one that can navigate a 3D enviorment, change its clothes etc.
it is possible for people to have a 3d customizable avatar in a 2d chat, to replace the "jpg", and you dont need a 3d enviroment for that, and its actually not that hard to do either.
Just looked at users on line on the webs leading HTML chat right now 1770 users.
Just looked at SL online right now 51,129.
Well compare that to 1,407,724,920 people currently (http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats.htm) on the internet.
the thing is people pay enough money for the internet as it is, and to pay on top of that for somthing is just plain wrong, second life is just a computer game without limitations,.
basically, Second life, your limited to one way of interacting with it (and you have to pay for that right), allthough you can do anything once your in it, while OTF can have any way of interacting with it, its free, and you can do anything once your in it, and you can do anything as part of OTF.
OTF is about being UNlimited, while Second Life, even though you hav the illusion of unlimited things ingame, you are technically limted by the boundries of the game.
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stewie
Member
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# Posted: 6 Jun 2008 15:37 · Edited by: stewie
Reply
For those in the dark ages that don't actually investigate and make wild assumptions.. Heres the FACTS about Second Life.
Ho Ho Ho I know a lot of you don't LIKE facts, but sadly they need to be posted to get past the technophobic luditte like mentality of those who create lies because they fear change.
100 PERCENT FREE
That's right, there IS an optional fee if you want to buy LAND!!!!!!
which ONLY the ADMIRIAL would need to do.
Want to buy currency to buy stuff in game. Sure you can buy currency. OR better still the OH SO UNLIMITED creative community here could MAKE stuff to sell or give away!
100 PERCENT USER CREATED CONTENT
This right here answers the "limitations of the game" You can do anything in second life, if you can think it you can build it. So if IMAGINATION is the limit. Then you can do it in SL. Name a thing you can do on the outpost you CANT do in SL. Cuz I can sure as beanz is beanz name a billion things you can do in SL you can't do at the outpost.
100 PERCENT OPEN SOURCE
Oh that's right. The client is one hundred percent open source meaning TWO things.
1. The computing guru's at the outpost could create a TEXT ONLY CLIENT for people with P.O.S computers ((there are many many many text only clients for second life)))
2. The computing guru's at the outpost could make a full experience client for the outpost.
The computing guru's could make OUTPOST CLIENT VIEWERS that incorperate BOTH options as well as not even having to have the Second Life Logo ON the LOGIN PAGE.
That's right an OUTPOST CLIENT would be INDISTINGUISHABLE from OTF.
but hey. It's too limited right. while these html pages are just breaking all kinds of barriers these days.
I wish someone who actually knew what they were talking about replied here.
Ya know what, good luck with that pioneering spirit of yours. Have fun searching out boundries and expanding them. Oh and good luck with that go get em attitude.
"Space the final frontier, these are the voyages of the..... naw you know what, lets stay home, it's too scary out there and you know what there might be problems or things we can't handle"
The fact is you could start easily with a 512 meter plot of land which would cost the entire OUTPOST 10 dollars a month total ((not the membership, not each individual)) then if the idea took off you could expand the land. If really successsfull THEN look at expanding to a full sim.
the fact that theres so many verhment ludittes here unwilling to even TRY just fills me with dread.
So dacherest..
LOOK INTO
Getting a tiny plot of land ((and build a small room there as a tester))
making out post text and full experience clients
you know actually test the water...
THEN we will talk.
It's funny I'm only proposing an EXPANSION to what OTF can offer to get itself a foot in the door of 3d immersive worlds. Yet nuuuuuu ....no one even willing to give it a shot.
Ah well.
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david1
Member
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# Posted: 6 Jun 2008 16:33
Reply
100 PERCENT FREE
That's right, there IS an optional fee if you want to buy LAND!!!!!!
which ONLY the ADMIRIAL would need to do.
So to be a community in second life i think we'd have to buy land. thus it wouldnt be free, but then again you seem to know a lot, how would we be able to "own" a community within second life, without land?
100 PERCENT USER CREATED CONTENT
This right here answers the "limitations of the game" You can do anything in second life, if you can think it you can build it.
Can you pause it to go and have a quick shower?
100 PERCENT OPEN SOURCE
Yeah well I havent investigated second life , and dont know much about it to be honest, all i know is about the 3d world its in, but i am a flash/php/perl/java/c++ programmer maybe i should put an eye in there...
It's too limited right. while these html pages are just breaking all kinds of barriers these days
Go back four years and that would have been true the problem is people are losing their passion for the website, theyre loosing faith, poor managment has been the bane of this website and not the technology its based on.
Even if otf was moved to second life, without proper managment it would just be another flop.
That's right an OUTPOST CLIENT would be INDISTINGUISHABLE from OTF
Its possible, however people shouldnt have to download files to be able to use somthing, and if people went to a cyber cafe to visit otf (which does happen often), they wouldnt be able to download the client, which would keep them out of otf.
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stewie
Member
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# Posted: 6 Jun 2008 16:42 · Edited by: stewie
Reply
Quoting: david1 So to be a community in second life i think we'd have to buy land. thus it wouldnt be free, but then again you seem to know a lot, how would we be able to "own" a community within second life, without land? .
yes you can. You could set up an OTF group for 100 linden. ((currency))
Keep in contact. You don't NEED to own land to be a community there. 100 linden is like "nothing" if you ever get in world tell me your user name, set up the group and i'll give you that.
A group would be easy, you'd just be with out a home base is all. but there are plenty of existing sci-fi based sims there people could hang out in the meantime.
and sure the odd person visiting from a cyber cafe couldn't access it
but you know there is AJAX life with is web browser client for second life, i'm sure if they can do a web browser version with no downloads neccessary the outpost can
and can you pause the chat room and take a quick shower with out timing out?
well with second life you just stick on orb of anti idle and volia you can park your avatar there 24/7 if it is your desire.
as for loosing passion, theres nothing like collaberating on a huge useful new project to get that passion going again.
heck yeah don't even purchase land just work on
text only
browser only
full experience
OTF client viewers
set up an OTF group with in second life and give it a whirl.
then if people like it, build a huge ass sim...
start small but for gosh sakes get the foot in the door early.
I mean those with crappy computers can still access it and get the "Basic text client" download
Or "browser client" for use at the internet cafe ((no huge ass change there))
and then people on the 3d client can still "chat" with these people who are not getting the full 3d experience..
someone talked about "something that runs on the crappiest p.o.s comp, to the highest level comp"
that format is here. except the better your comp, the more whistles and bells you get.
so yeah..
do the clients dudes.
A free community with out a homebase in game. But you know baby steps. Once its a success you can then decide to purchase land if you want. It's optional.
You don't NEED a homebase to be a community, but a homebase is a potential future project if people feel they would like to go there.
I'd suggest
the clients first as these can be done for free.
Have a commuity in secondlife who are homeless but there to chat and hang out and explore secondlife ....
find new sims etc to hang out at hell heres an idea already
OTF Away teams could explore new sims ((seek out new worlds))
then if Successful... consider pooling finances for a home base.
the last thing would be the only thing costing money.
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david1
Member
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# Posted: 6 Jun 2008 17:02
Reply
I have full 8m/b broadband and ive been downloading the 35mb client for 30 minutes, and its still at 45% .... i hope this is a one off lmao.
but you know there is AJAX life with is web browser client for second life, i'm sure if they can do a web browser version with no downloads neccessary the outpost can
Even though thats true, MSN and ICQ are even better text based things to use, and are more established and well trusted.
------------------------------------
Just wanting to clarify somthing, text based, window based, that implies just replacing the "chat element" of the site?
what about security, say you have some lame lamer who keeps commng in (even into a pg room) how do you keep that guy/gal/thing away, if that person is not breaking the rules of the second life website, but is breaking the rules of the small community?
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