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Outpost 10F Forums / OTF v3 Ideas / UTC Time Zone defining the Outpost
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lzrman
Member
# Posted: 17 Oct 2008 22:56
Reply 


I Petition that it be scrapped, we did well with Pacific (PST) Time Zone, and its more confusing.

jaden
Member
# Posted: 17 Oct 2008 22:58
Reply 


Agreed! It is too confusing and NOT User Friendly! Please change it back to the old system of the Normal Standard times.

dierna
Member
# Posted: 17 Oct 2008 23:59
Reply 


Indeed! PST is easier cuz Im in the PST!

aeon
Member
# Posted: 18 Oct 2008 00:26
Reply 


Well, to me it is easier, because it's closer to my own timezone. In the past eleven years, when OTF was on PST, I was the one confused, so now it's your turn.

fat_man
Member
# Posted: 18 Oct 2008 00:51
Reply 


timezone converter Iain made, why not use it?

lzrman
Member
# Posted: 18 Oct 2008 00:59
Reply 


doesn't work

mezoti
Member
# Posted: 18 Oct 2008 01:30
Reply 


Why don't you do the math?

I mean, UTC is -standard-. It's what everything is based off of. It's really not that hard to subtract hours.

(ilu, Iainjoon <3 but never mention I stood up for UTC, kthxbai)

dierna
Member
# Posted: 18 Oct 2008 01:40
Reply 


The main problem right now is that over the weekend everyone but North America switched over to DST. North America doesn't even do that till November.

I've never been able to figure out the time zones in the first place. All I know is Alaska is an hour behind me and Hawaii is 2 hours behind me. *lol*

mezoti
Member
# Posted: 18 Oct 2008 02:17
Reply 


Uh, UTC never changes. It's always the exact same. Hence why it's the standard everything else is based on.

lzrman
Member
# Posted: 18 Oct 2008 05:09
Reply 


why don't we base it then of GMT? because everyone knows what their offset is, for MST the zone i am in its -7:00 but when we go put that in the timezone thing its not correct.

demonvamp
Member
# Posted: 18 Oct 2008 14:45
Reply 


I think it's fine as is. So most people have to add or subtract, that's nothing new. If people who never had to do that now have to, well welcome to our world.

Me, I use my multiple Vista clock ability to tell me my time and OTF time. Failing that, how hard is it to look at the homepage?

iain
Moderator
# Posted: 18 Oct 2008 15:47
Reply 


Quoting: lzrman
why don't we base it then of GMT?

UTC is GMT...

(Before any pedants jump in: yes, I am aware that sometimes there are differences of up to 0.9 seconds between UTC and GMT.)

iain
Moderator
# Posted: 18 Oct 2008 15:48
Reply 


Quoting: lzrman
but when we go put that in the timezone thing its not correct

Because you are on daylight savings time.

So, while on DST, take -7 and add 1.

-7 + 1 = -6.

UTC/GMT don't have any daylight savings time. So, for the other half the year, you will be on UTC-7. Right now, you are on UTC-7+1 = UTC-6.

iain
Moderator
# Posted: 18 Oct 2008 15:57
Reply 


Quoting: dierna
The main problem right now is that over the weekend everyone but North America switched over to DST

No. Right now, everyone (at least everyone in Europe and North America) is all still on DST. No one has yet switched from DST. Europe switches in about a week.

Note though that UTC never ever changes.

What that means is that the OTF clock itself never changes.

If you change all of your clocks by an hour, you will therefore find that your offset relative to the OTF clock has changed.

But the OTF clock never, ever changes.

In other words, you don't need to care about when anyone switches to/from DST. All you need to remember is that when you change your clocks, the OTF clock won't have changed -- and therefore, the difference between your clock and the OTF clock will have changed. Because you changed your clock, not because the OTF clock changed.

Example:

Your clock says 9am. The OTF clock says 3pm.
You decide to move your clock backwards by an hour.
Now, your clock says 8am. The OTF clock still says 3pm.

Has the OTF clock changed? No.
Has your clock changed? Yes.


If you can't wrap your head round this, just buy an alarm clock and set it to OTF time. Then don't touch the alarm clock. Even on the two nights each year when you change to/from DST, do NOT touch the alarm clock. The alarm clock NEVER changes hour.

The alarm clock (OTF time) will never change hours. So if you just leave it alone forever, you will have a clock that reads OTF time for you.

iain
Moderator
# Posted: 18 Oct 2008 16:02 · Edited by: iain
Reply 


Quoting: lzrman
for MST the zone i am in

Incidentally, have you ever read the Wikipedia article on Mountain Time?

It clearly says:

The Mountain Time Zone of North America keeps time by subtracting seven hours from Coordinated Universal Time (UTC-7) during the shortest days of autumn and winter, and by subtracting six hours during daylight saving time in the spring, summer, and early autumn (UTC-6).

...

In the United States and Canada, this time zone is generically called Mountain Time (MT). Specifically, it is Mountain Standard Time (MST) when observing standard time (Winter), and Mountain Daylight Time (MDT) when observing daylight saving time.


In other words, right now, you are on MDT, Mountain Daylight Time, UTC-6.
The other half the year, you are on MST, Mountain Standard Time, UTC-7.

For general interest: North American Timezones.

Note that there you must look at "Standard" and "Daylight" times, for your particular timezone.

lzrman
Member
# Posted: 19 Oct 2008 01:45 · Edited by: lzrman
Reply 


Thanks ....

bria
Member
# Posted: 20 Oct 2008 23:46 · Edited by: bria
Reply 


Wow, and I thought I had problems understanding time (mostly 'cause I don't try, but still).

Still don't understand Iain's patience, though (and not for lack of trying).

And for the record, I'm in favour of keeping UTC. Even if it does mean the occasional bout of simple mathematics.

ohm
Member
# Posted: 21 Oct 2008 03:05
Reply 


This is no time to talk about time. We don't have the time!... What was I saying?

lzrman
Member
# Posted: 21 Oct 2008 04:35
Reply 


The we don't have time

polson
Member
# Posted: 21 Oct 2008 06:20
Reply 


Iain! You're a frickin' genius! I even have a setting on my watch for a second time zone! You have no idea how happy you just made me!

dierna
Member
# Posted: 22 Oct 2008 01:59
Reply 


Im just glad I don't live in New Foundland... Who's idea was it for them to be on the half hour time zone??? WTF?

That Wikipedia page was slightly helpful...and I learned im in the same time zone as some French island in the South Pacific.

polson
Member
# Posted: 22 Oct 2008 13:17
Reply 


Newfoundland wanted to be special.

polson
Member
# Posted: 22 Oct 2008 13:17
Reply 


Actually, I work with a Newfie. I'll ask her. *l*

wedge
Member
# Posted: 23 Oct 2008 03:00
Reply 


you know engineers, they just love to change things

daecrist
Member
# Posted: 23 Oct 2008 17:58
Reply 


I've always found it pretty easy. I just subtract five or six, depending on whether daylight savings is going on, rather than adding three or four, depending on whether or not Indiana was on DST at a given time.

Though my state's refusal to go on DST until the current administration has meant I'm probably a little more conscious of timezone conversions than others.

But yeah, UTC is the standard by which the rest of the world sets their timezones and we're sticking with it, even if it is slightly unfair that the Brits got to set all that business back when they ran the world.

polson
Member
# Posted: 23 Oct 2008 21:07
Reply 


I never know what's going on with daylight savings. I just wait for my computer to be a different time than my watch.

soka
Member
# Posted: 23 Oct 2008 22:45
Reply 


If we want to make it fair we have to use such an exotic timezone that no OTFer actually uses it *lol*
So far the people in PST always had the advantage, now the UK has it for half the year. Me personally, I don't care much - before I had to add 9 hours to PST-times, now I have to add 2 hours to UTC (soon 1 hour).


As for DST, I added the switches to the OTF calendar, hoping I made it clear. I'm pretty sure what I wrote is correct *
Europe switches off DST the last weekend in October (meaning in 2-3 days), America and Canada the first weekend in November.

hobbie
Moderator
# Posted: 24 Oct 2008 07:17
Reply 


I think I once suggested rotating timezones. Say, every day. So we'd all get one day ever twenty four during which our timezone will be used. It's the only way to be fair.



bria
Member
# Posted: 24 Oct 2008 11:16
Reply 


Shut up Ray.



lzrman
Member
# Posted: 24 Oct 2008 23:42
Reply 


OTF needs its own time zone

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