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lzrman
Member
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# Posted: 25 Jan 2010 01:32
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Just want to float this and get some discussion.
We should have a page that tells us of those patrons who have accomplished the following mile stones in terms of years of membership at OTF.
5 Years
10 Years
11+
I Think recognizing everyone's continued membership over the years will help build this community, perhaps we could send an email to those people on their anniversary date too! Reminding them also to pop into the chat (this does work too for those who havn't been around too) as a friendly reminder we still exist.
Thoughts?
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ajcardall
Member
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# Posted: 25 Jan 2010 13:05 · Edited by: ajcardall
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I'll throw in my two penneth:
Well, I don't think in principle there is much wrong with the idea itself. My only concern, per se, is that, who is around to see it these days? I've been dropping by regularly for about a week now, and it's always the same people day in, day out, and I've seen no-more than 15 different people in the chats. Also, for about 18 out of 24 hours in the day, there is no one around. Would it not be like shouting into a vacuum, or wearing a "I'm 21 Today!" badge in a pub with two or three people in it?
For my money, which is mainly owed to the banks of this fine land, a few ideas about kick-stating membership and chat numbers would be of higher priority. Before these past 7/8 days I've not been around much for a good two or three years, so don't know if this "slump" has been going on long, or if I just picked a bad week to drop by again. If it is a more long-term thing, then I reckon ideas to buck that trend make a little more sense right now.
Perhaps, as you said, an email to these people with anniversaries may cause them to drop by? But honestly, if I'd have received some such email a few months ago, I'd have scanned it and forgotten about it. Besides, even if they did open the site, and saw an empty chat room - or almost empty chat room - would they log in? And when there are people around, I find the pace is very slow.
Perhaps it's just me who thinks that way. Like I said, I don't really see anything wrong with the idea in theory - in fact, I'm almost certain something akin to this was mooted about 3 or 4 years ago? Unless I'm crossing my wires, which after 4 years, much travelling, and a ridiculous amount of drinking, is likely.
I don't mean to hijack Lzr's thread about the life and times of OTF, by the way. I'm just suggesting why, in my own humble view, this idea - while perhaps sound in theory - may be ultimately a futile and, I do not mean this to sound harsh, pointless gesture..
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aeon
Member
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# Posted: 25 Jan 2010 18:59
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And how exactly would it build the community if we had such kinds of achievement postings, my dear Wilhelm?
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3of8
Member
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# Posted: 25 Jan 2010 20:22
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maybe people who cant join a dep due to lack of time etc could may be able be promoted to cl5 by time served ie 5years between cl4 and cl5 the 2 years there after,just a thought
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ajcardall
Member
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# Posted: 25 Jan 2010 21:01 · Edited by: ajcardall
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Is it still just about promotions here?
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jd
Member
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# Posted: 26 Jan 2010 00:34
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Depends on who you ask, unfortunately.
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taurik
Member
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# Posted: 26 Jan 2010 00:41
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Promotion by mere chat time is the easy way out. I will fight chat-time promotions until the bitter end.
Besides, yeah, is it still just about promotions? A good thing about the community right now is that people don't seem to care about promotions anymore. People just chat.
And I don't think we can really stop an idea because there's no one around to see it. We should be happy that there's people out there who are still thinking about making the place better. When we start shooting down ideas simply because we really don't like them, we're showing exactly what lead to the drop in active membership. We're returning to the days of Hong. Yeah, that's right, I said it. I'm still bitter.
I know no one has shot down Lzr's idea, but I was motivated nonetheless.
I like his idea and yet I am cautious over his idea.
I like it because it would be nice for those of us who have been here for so long to be recognized for our time here. If it wasn't for us, where would the motivation have been to keep this place opened once Andrew decided to move on?
On the other side, I worry about what the real reason is for wanting to put on a showy act for the whole of OTF to know how long we've been here. How long before someone uses it to say, "see this? It means I've been here longer than you...I am above you". I see past it everytime when in chat people are saying when they registered. Its really everyone just saying, "I've been here a long time...I'm better than you."
So yeah...recognize me for my 12 years in OTF...but be mindful of the ego boost and the feeling of superiority that could come from it.
There's a good way to do this and a not so good way to do this. Just be careful.
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aeon
Member
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# Posted: 26 Jan 2010 06:26
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Quoting: taurik When we start shooting down ideas simply because we really don't like them, we're showing exactly what lead to the drop in active membership.
Sadly, that is not the reason why OTF died. And Hong had nothing to do with it either.
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korny
Member
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# Posted: 26 Jan 2010 08:10
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People want to know how much of their lives have been spent in a chatroom?
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david1
Member
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# Posted: 26 Jan 2010 09:39
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There isnt any energy in the site anymore.
There isnt any marketing anymore either.
theres just been a massive st new film recently, how has that effected visitor number? I dont know but the tumble weed in the chatroom says it all.
we're still no1 in google typing "star trek chatroom". but no one is searching for this term anymore. The site needs a complete rethink. if people want to chat they skype-msn-txt-phone-msg in a game to people, most people dont have the patience to sit down and chat anymore. What else has the site to offer? and what marketing has been done to thrust that on the public? we're in the age of viral campaigns!? whats stopping people advertizing on facebook? twitter? youtube?
The site died, because people grew up and moved on from the site (hence why they nostalgically visit the site from time to time, but thats a rarety), and because there wasnt enough "young blood" to revitalise the site. Simply put. Since ive been with the site for many years, ive seen very little emphasis on marketing, in fact I cant remember any external campaigns that happened to try and recruit more membership. That is what led to the spiral of death, everything else happened because of that.
****rants on****
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demonvamp
Member
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# Posted: 26 Jan 2010 16:30
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Quoting: david1 theres just been a massive st new film recently, how has that effected visitor number? I dont know but the tumble weed in the chatroom says it all.
I know where they all are... al lot of them, anyway. Places like ONTD_startrek on livejournal. It's a case, I feel, of people wanting to be able to join in a convo or not, and somewhere like that means you can watch the fun if you want, or take part. Chat rooms aren't like that, not really, you can't just read a chat room on your mobile. Plus, Facebook, Twitter, yada yada yada. I'm a forum lurker now because I have so many other things to occupy my time that typing a response when I can is less time consuming than sitting in chat. Plus, people find new fandoms and go where they are catered for.
I shut up now.
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dierna
Member
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# Posted: 26 Jan 2010 17:46
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Well the profile management system/dossier thing already lists the date when a person signed on so we technically already have what you're suggesting.
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3of8
Member
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# Posted: 26 Jan 2010 22:21
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what about people who cant join a department for some reason? no chance of further promotions,whats the point of logging in if youre cl4
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ajcardall
Member
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# Posted: 26 Jan 2010 22:35
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Because OTF isn't just about rank, perhaps?
If it's ranks you want, join the forces.
This is a chatroom. Perhaps folks come to chat?
Or am I a madman because I do that? *l*
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taurik
Member
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# Posted: 26 Jan 2010 23:11
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If you come to OTF only to get promoted, then all you want is to satisfy some sick desire to be over others in an interwebs chatroom. If you need that, then you might as well just quit coming into OTF because we don't need you.
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david1
Member
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# Posted: 27 Jan 2010 00:22
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Quoting: ajcardall This is a chatroom. Perhaps folks come to chat? Or am I a madman because I do that? *l*
Your AJ, of course your a madman
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david1
Member
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# Posted: 27 Jan 2010 00:25
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OTF has currently absorbed....
61 Days : 12 HOurs : 14 Minutes : 16 Seconds
of my life.
Depressing.
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lzrman
Member
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# Posted: 27 Jan 2010 00:57
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XZ: 133D : 16H : 18M : 39S 1/3rd of my life 
Quoting: aeon And how exactly would it build the community if we had such kinds of achievement postings, my dear Wilhelm?
In the "real" world when you recognize your members for their years of service, most of the time you can continue to retain them and their skills.
Quoting: dierna Well the profile management system/dossier thing already lists the date when a person signed on so we technically already have what you're suggesting.
This is not what I am suggesting, a general public list of those who have accomplishments of 5,10,11+ yrs of membership.
Quoting: david1 we're still no1 in google typing "star trek chatroom". but no one is searching for this term anymore. The site needs a complete rethink.
Exactly, we need to find out what they are searching for, and cater to that audience.
Quoting: 3of8 what about people who cant join a department for some reason? no chance of further promotions,whats the point of logging in if youre cl4
The continuation of one's membership and to chat??! and get to know new people. I know there are some people who cannot join a dept, perhaps we need to think of lifting the department minimum clearance level and let anyone join. I know we had a member who received a field promotion by Andrew Maxwell to CL3 and then to 4 later on and was given a position in a department.
Quoting: david1 OTF has currently absorbed.... 61 Days : 12 HOurs : 14 Minutes : 16 Seconds of my life. Depressing.
Sad I got more time then you which is more depressing. But who's keeping track anywho but the OTF System.
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david1
Member
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# Posted: 27 Jan 2010 13:51
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Quoting: lzrman Exactly, we need to find out what they are searching for, and cater to that audience.
that to clever for lzr, who are you and what have you done with lzr ... 
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ajcardall
Member
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# Posted: 27 Jan 2010 16:57
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I think this has been said over and over, but just to re-iterate, I think the biggest priority is getting people in the chats again. Whether that be attracting new members (difficult, I believe, given the current trend for Twitter, Facebook etc... style sites) or encouraging some of the older people to start coming by...
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darth_balco
Member
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# Posted: 27 Jan 2010 17:17
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I could make a long, angry rant about why OTF is dead and start the finger pointing game, but I don't give a good enough poo to so I'll just say this:
OTF is like Terri Shavio and the people who still come here don't want it off Life Support. While the idea to give a shoutout to the chatters who have made OTF what is sounds good and nice, but at this point, it would be like someone giving thanks for being with grandma in her final minutes.
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darth_balco
Member
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# Posted: 27 Jan 2010 17:20
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And might I add just being in OTF these days is like visiting a nursing home. You just want to visit your loved ones for a brief, then leave before aura of death gets under your skin.
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aeon
Member
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# Posted: 27 Jan 2010 17:31 · Edited by: aeon
Reply
Quoting: taurik If you come to OTF only to get promoted, then all you want is to satisfy some sick desire to be over others in an interwebs chatroom. If you need that, then you might as well just quit coming into OTF because we don't need you.
Nice attitude.
THIS is what keeps people away. This attitude. "If you are different, then we don't want you here."
What do you think is it that keeps people here? And I'm not talking about the people who come in here for years and years. I'm talking about the ones who have joined OTF only recently. Of COURSE they stay here for the promotions. Why is it that every single newcomer asks in the chat how the promotions work, or how they can advance in rank? Why do we even have guidelines and documentary for that topic? Because that is EXACTLY what keeps the newcomers here. People want to get promoted, and in order to get promoted and advanced in rank and get to use all the shiny things like armory and the bar and whatnot that are so taken for granted by people who have it already, they are willing to actually do stuff and be rewarded. That's how it worked for years, and that's what kept this thing alive. To a big part at least. And that is how it works with everything. You do something in life, and you get rewarded, that's the big motivation in life.
OTF's other problem is, that chat rooms are old fashioned and outdated, and nobody wants that, because why? It's too slow. People don't want to spend that much time online anymore; the internet isn't new anymore, it's available to everyone, and you get any kind of information you want within seconds. That's why Twitter is so popular, for example... it's fast, you can check in with your friends to see what's going on in minutes, and you don't have to stay online for hours and hours. But people don't just want to log into a chat and wait several hours for somebody else to come online, and why is that? Because it's boring. OTF has become boring. And that's why nobody ever comes here anymore.
And then we have people here who tell others "We don't need you." Seriously. OTF needs every single person it can get, and instead of pushing them away, you should maybe embrace the community you have, inspire them, and allow them to make alternative ideas. If you want to make a difference, then the first step is to actually allow the difference to happen. But if you keep everthing the way it is, this place will just rot even more.
EDIT:
Well said, Pat.
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ajcardall
Member
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# Posted: 27 Jan 2010 17:43
Reply
"OTF's other problem is, that chat rooms are old fashioned and outdated, and nobody wants that, because why? It's too slow. People don't want to spend that much time online anymore; the internet isn't new anymore, it's available to everyone, and you get any kind of information you want within seconds. That's why Twitter is so popular, for example... it's fast, you can check in with your friends to see what's going on in minutes, and you don't have to stay online for hours and hours. But people don't just want to log into a chat and wait several hours for somebody else to come online, and why is that? Because it's boring. OTF has become boring. And that's why nobody ever comes here anymore."
A lot of that is very true, I think. Sums up the change towards the Facebooks and Twitters of this world (wide web).
But one part I kinda have to pick at is "OTF is boring". Perhaps, in essence, it can be viewed as such, but it's a downward spiral - not a never ending trend. If more people dropped by, there'd be more people in chat, encouraging more people to drop by again. As it stands, no-one goes in as, like you said, it can be 'boring' and empty. Until people start changing that, and dropping in, and making sure it isn't boring, we're stuck.
Ray and I discussed this in chat today, and the fact that during mid-day (GMT) the room had several people (about 6/7?) in proves this. I dropped in because Shannon was there, and figured it may attract more people. Then Ray came in because I was in, and it snow-balled from there.
All it takes is people to stop this "OTF is boring" or "OTF is dead" negativity, and start to look positive. Will OTF be boring if instead of lamenting it, people dropped by to say hello for a while, thus attracting more people? Perhaps it's not quite as simple as that, but in my view, it's a better starting platform than brooding over it all 
Don't think I'm having a go, A-Duck, as you know I love you to bits ♥. I'm just saying, ya know?
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aeon
Member
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# Posted: 27 Jan 2010 17:52
Reply
I know all that. I was merely making a point here, because sometimes someone has to hold up a mirror. Figuratively speaking.
The people you mentioned who came in are "old ones", not newcomers. You haven't attracted new people with your presence, but people who already know you. And that's the point. OTF is boring to newcomers and outsiders. And we still have the problem, that when new people enter the chat, they are not exactly welcomed here. Because of all our cliques and stuff. That all makes it boring to outsiders.
OTF needs to change, and then it needs to be promoted to make people aware of the changes. Every now and then we try that, and we fail. That Executive Blog or what is was called... last updated in 2008. OTF on Twitter... updated every now and then with 18 followers... and who are they? People who already are at OTF.
That's the point. If you want new people, attract new people. Find out what people want, do research, and then OFFER it to them. Give people what they want. That's how it works. And for that, we need the aforementioned people who are creative, and inspirational, and who can think outside the box. OTF can't be afraid of change. We have to embrace it.
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taurik
Member
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# Posted: 27 Jan 2010 17:59
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You miss the point of what I'm trying to say. Ranks and promotions are fun, yes. There's no problem with wanting to gain in rank by helping out OTF. I'm all in favor of that.
I'm saying we don't need the people who want to come in here just to get the ranks and be over other people. By claiming that there's no reason to come into OTF if there's no way to get promoted, someone is saying they're not in here just for the conversation.
I'll say it again: If you're the kind of person who just wants to come in here and get promoted so you can be over other people, you're not welcome and I don't want you here. Not YOU...the royal you...ya know?
Some of the people I've hated the most here are the people who get rank and start dominating the chatroom. They are above everyone and they set the tone. Something a little controversial and they don't like it? They get to remove that person. We've all seen it. Having rank here should be about the cool toys you get to play with, not the ability to control the chat and be over the people in there.
I stand by what I originally said. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. I already called out one person. I'm not willing to do it again at this moment...but we all know who I'm talking about when I say people who get rank and start to control everything. Those aren't the people we need. We need people who just want to have a good chat and do a little contribution to the place.
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ajcardall
Member
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# Posted: 27 Jan 2010 18:00
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Hmmm, very good points actually...
But is it boring because the market demands for the internet have changed, and OTF not longer meets them, or because of a very inactive membership? I'm not one for market research and what have you, but I will do what I can to try and boost the numbers of people logging in - even if they are old-timers. At least if we have a more active membership, and the chat is a little busier, then perhaps more new people would be encouraged to drop by, say hello, register...?
Perhaps OTF has to be more multi-faceted? I'd wager that people searching for Star Wars/Trek on Google these days are looking for information, details... not chat rooms. If OTF had (and it would be a lot of work, granted) a ST/SW bible, or something, then who knows? The people looking for information may drop by in chats?
Same with the forums - they could be exposed a lot more which could attract newer members? If people aren't looking for chats because they're too slow and don't want to sit waiting, perhaps forums could attract new people? With forums you can come back and check etc etc, and not have to sit in chat waiting for a reply which may never be forthcoming. Make sense? And then if people got engrossed in the forums, they may then utilise the chat to, well, chat to the people they have met here on the forums. Basically if these were expanded and broaded, as well as marketed, perhaps it would drag more people in?
Just my thoughts. Could be crap, who knows?
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david1
Member
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# Posted: 27 Jan 2010 20:28
Reply
Quoting: darth_balco And might I add just being in OTF these days is like visiting a nursing home. You just want to visit your loved ones for a brief, then leave before aura of death gets under your skin.
quote of the year LMAO
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david1
Member
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# Posted: 27 Jan 2010 20:32 · Edited by: david1
Reply
well there is a star trek online games comming soon, why doesnt otf open itself up to it, update the dossiers to include some links to info on characters in the game, and open up the forums to them to rant and rave about the game, and for help in the game. It would work since i myself am going to be playing in the game, and if i have problems or speak to people with problems I could always refer people to our forums, etc and if others did this, it would generate one source of membership.
thats a bandwagon you can jump on.
Babysteps - and start simple.
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taurik
Member
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# Posted: 27 Jan 2010 21:29
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Does anyone know how to make that happen? If yes, then I say let's do it.
As the official "Director of Marketing", I have the authority to say "make it happen" because it sounds like a great marketing tool. Advertise it in game. If its anything like EVE, its going to have down times. Why can't OTF be the official Down Time destination for these games?
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