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deanna
Member
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# Posted: 14 Jun 2006 20:21
Reply
WAIT!!
IT"S BAD  Just ask Doonesbury...:P
http://www.musicunited.org/8_whatothers.html#doones
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monny
Member
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# Posted: 15 Jun 2006 01:43
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The sad thing about "illegally downloading" is that a lot of people download GOOD music and buy all the pop crap that's being thrown on the market.
I see that a lot here in the Netherlands. It's overrun with the most horrific pop music you can think of. A lot the people with the least bit of musical taste, download their stuff. The result is that ALL the radio stations won't play "risky" new music types and you mostly see poppy TMF, MTV crap at the music stores. The music stores and radio stations are trying to make money so why put things out there that won't sell.
My point?
If you really love music, buy a CD or pay for a download once in a while and support the artists making good music. 
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citron
Member
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# Posted: 15 Jun 2006 05:53
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Music tends to go in cycles. The 90's were filled with a lot of new and different music, starting with Nirvana.
If you're really interested in hearing more of this, click here and check out pages 7 and 8 - There are 4 shows called "Retro 90's". It goes through a study of how music is now in a pop era and when we expect to see a decline in this music.
Alan Cross and the History of New Music is one of the most popular radio shows, as both fans and industry agree.
Yes, downloading is illegal. But how many of us download an album and then if we like it, we go buy it? (There's a lot more than you think!  )
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polson
Member
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# Posted: 15 Jun 2006 11:44
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*nods* If I download music, it's just to hear what someone sounds like so I know if I want to go buy them. And if I like it, I buy it. If I don't like it, the file gets trashed.
My parents however, fully believe in pirating. The other day I was saying I wanted to buy the cd my mom was listening to and she said in that "why are you so stupid" tone of voice, "Why buy it when you can just burn it?" My response, "Because, A: it's illegal, and B: if I like an artist, I want to support them." So...I find those cartoons seriously ironic...hmmmmm....gives me an idea for a cartoon strip...
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richard
Member
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# Posted: 15 Jun 2006 13:48
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"Topic: Illegally Downloading Music..."
A simple matter of law. Over here in the Netherlands it is not illegal to download music. It is however illegal to make it available or upload it...
"If you really love music, buy a CD or pay for a download once in a while and support the artists making good music. "
I tend to agree with Monny there, BUT.... over here the shops keep CD prices high. A new album can cost you between 50 and 70 euro. As long as CD's remain expensive I, and many others here, will continue to download and burn
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polson
Member
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# Posted: 15 Jun 2006 14:00
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I'm not entirely sure how conversion rates between Canadian and eruos work...so I've got no idea how much it costs.
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citron
Member
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# Posted: 15 Jun 2006 14:05
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50 euro is about $70 Canadian, at least, according to currency rates today.
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lucient
Member
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# Posted: 15 Jun 2006 14:15
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<!--QuoteBegin--citron+June 15 2006,14:05--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (citron @ June 15 2006,14:05)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->50 euro is about $70 Canadian, at least, according to currency rates today.<br><br> <!--emo&:?--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/srp.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':?'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>which is basically $70 amrican...that's insane <!--emo&:?--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/srp.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':?'><!--endemo-->
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norrisa
Member
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# Posted: 15 Jun 2006 14:40
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Indeed, in the US downloading copyrighted material without the owners premission in the US over P2P networks is illegal; It is still 100% Legal to download music from the Internet. There are dozens of legal programs that you can pay a monthly/yearly subscription to use.
Not all music online is 'legal'; Such as, P2P clients, which contain mostly copyrighted material. The music it's self is not illegal, the sharing of such files causes the legal controversy. Kids are being sued for using this software! Currently the RIAA sues users that have over 1000 downloaded files. Despite the fact that file users sharing less than 1,000 songs have avoided lawsuits so far, the legality of downloading less music is still as much illegal. Current lawsuits are pending.
I don't suggest the use of such software, due to constant threats of viruses, maleware, Denial of Service attacks, spamming, and identity attacks. Constantly, i've had to scan my PC to remove such viri. There are plenty legal programs out there...
That's just my two cents...
Andrew
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dashiva
Member
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# Posted: 15 Jun 2006 15:08
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I could sit here and put forward some perfectly sound reasons why downloading music the illegal way is justifiable.
Instead I’ll just say that yes it's illegal, and yes it's an infringement of someone else's intellectual property and yes it's wrong. But hey, there are a lot of illegal things I’d do if I thought I’d get away with it! I like music; I can't afford to buy as much as I'd like, and so I’m going to keep stealing it. At least I'm being honest about my dishonesty!
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polson
Member
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# Posted: 16 Jun 2006 17:35
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Wait, first of all, $70 Canadian is like, $60 USA. Second, most CDs in Canada sell for $15-25 Canadian. So this all sounds incredibly insane. I just bought two cds yesterday for thirty dollars. Are ya sure about that conversion rate?
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citron
Member
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# Posted: 16 Jun 2006 20:26
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Polson, you could've checked for yourself and seen that yes, it really is the right conversion. 50 euro IS $70 Canadian.
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polson
Member
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# Posted: 16 Jun 2006 22:18
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Where does one check these conversions?
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citron
Member
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# Posted: 17 Jun 2006 00:35
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http://www.xe.com is pretty good
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deanna
Member
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# Posted: 17 Jun 2006 06:30
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Everything is more expensive in Europe...I know for a fact that Craig usually stocks up on CD's when he comes here...cause they're "so cheap" when I'm freaking out about a CD costing roughly $18.99.
I know I didn't take a side on the music downloading issue, cause I don't do it. Not for any righteous reason, but simply I don't need to. *points to the boy* He downloads enough for the both of us. I'm not against it, when the cost of music continues to soar, and with the invention of more and more ways to listen to music and have the sort of music you love right at your fingertips.
However...support artists in some fashion. It is afterall, their passion and their love of music that brings it to us in the first place.
I'm a fan of alot of local artists and I go and hang out and listen to them as often as I can..I will more when I can get someone to go with me, I'm not a huge fan of going out alone. I wonder...do you all have a favorite "unknown" local group?
Rob Byer, seems to have ceased performing locally, but I still own his t-shirt and I did follow him around for awhile, now I pretty much just go listen to The Solution, but that's cause I know the lead singer. Still..they're good.
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polson
Member
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# Posted: 17 Jun 2006 08:00
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Ewww, me no like concerts. I had my favorite sweat shirt ripped off me at an MxPx concert once and I wasn't even in the mosh pit. I find I enjoy music the best in my car with no one else in it but me, and the stereo cranked up, singing along.
I can't help but wonder if the reason prices continue to soar is because artists are getting ripped off through the internet so they have to compensate for it.
My favorite bands, garunteed they'd be a mystery to most of you (a select few will know them). Five Iron Frenzy will always hold a special place in my heart (followed by Roper and Bavesaintsaturn), right now I'm in love with Thousand Foot Krutch, Kutless and Barlow Girl. However, my shelf is loaded with other favorites like Skillet, Carmen, MxPx, Hokus Pick, Rebecca St. James, Toby Mac, Ghoti Hook, Craig's Brother....
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rednave
Member
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# Posted: 17 Jun 2006 15:07
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Maybe I'm just lucking out, but I rarely ever pay over £10 for an album. Looking at my collection right beside me, I've only spent over that a few times this year, Coheed and Cambria - Live for £16, was the most and that was because it was on import and was a DVD/CD combo. In fact, the one that cost over £10 are the ones I have to import from the States.
I buy on average 2/3 CDs a week and I've found if you search hard enough you can find what you want at a resonable price, then again I live near to 2 really good music shops that have always been known for their prices, and thankfully they have a good selection.
While I am known for buying lots of music, I also download music, but no where near the volume I used to. I'll usually download an album and if I like it can be found the next day turning this city upside down looking for it and I'll make sure to delete the pirated copy. A great example was "Team Sleep" heard about them on a Friday, downloaded the album on the Saturday, bought it on the Sunday.
Of course their is some cases where the band dosen't release their material in the UK or at least have it readly avaiable (I'm looking at you Dillinger Escape Plan! ) so I'm kind of forced to keep the downloaded copy, until at least I track down a copy. Even have a listed posted on my wall so I know.
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richard
Member
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# Posted: 17 Jun 2006 15:14
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<!--QuoteBegin--polson+June 17 2006,08:00--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (polson @ June 17 2006,08:00)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->I can't help but wonder if the reason prices continue to soar is because artists are getting ripped off through the internet so they have to compensate for it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>Well, I'd say not. If an album costs 3 to 4 times more in one country than in other surrounding countries you can be sure that the price is kept high artificially.
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anth
Member
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# Posted: 17 Jun 2006 16:16
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In my opinion, all branches of the media which release stuff to the public for profit are ripping us off. All of them.
I'll have no sympathy at all with anybody "losing out" to piracy until prices drop to a reasonable amount of money and they are seen to be making a reasonable profit.
As has been said, if they are not hiking prices, then why is Europe paying more than the USA? They simply sell at what they believe the market can stand. Then cry about it when a large number of people rebel and go down the piracy route.
It's not just music. Movies, video games, dvd's, etc, all of it is hugely over priced.
I can't speak for other countries. But, in the UK an average family going to the cinema would have to pay alot of money to get in. Then they face being ripped off for drinks, ice creams, etc. Who could blame that family for buying a pirate DVD of the film showing, for about a tenth of the price it would cost to visit the cinema?
Of course, they would rather see it at the cinema. But, some people cannot afford it. As is the case with all retail media.
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monny
Member
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# Posted: 18 Jun 2006 00:59
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<!--QuoteBegin--anth+June 17 2006,16:16--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (anth @ June 17 2006,16:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->In my opinion, all branches of the media which release stuff to the public for profit are ripping us off. All of them.<br><br>I'll have no sympathy at all with anybody "losing out" to piracy until prices drop to a reasonable amount of money and they are seen to be making a reasonable profit.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--><br>I think that "American" music and movies can be sold at a higher price in Europe because they are after all imports....OK let's not get into all of that.<br><br>Another point is that we don't HAVE to listen to commercial music. It's not like it's bread or milk or something. It's entertainment and unfortunately that costs money. I think that if people don't want to pay then no one is forcing them to listen. (I know that'll be a popular comment. <!--emo&:P--><img src="http://www.outpost10f.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/ton.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':P'><!--endemo-->)<br><br>Come on people, seriously...let's be realistic. Throughout history the only free music was that which you and your family made for yourselves. Musicians have always received some kind of financial support from the societies in which they live. If we don't like what the record companies have done with the industry then let's boycott. Downloading is not boycotting. It just shows them that their products are still marketable and they just need to find a way to get you to pay for them.
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anth
Member
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# Posted: 18 Jun 2006 07:23
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I can't speak for other counties, but i happen to know EMI have a huge CD pressing plant a few miles from my home. I'm guessing other companies have other plants outside the U.S too. So many discs are not imported.
HMV music stores etc do charge more for genuine imports i know. But, in many cases the discs are made in or near the country they are sold in.
I'm not saying record labels or other makers of various media should give stuff away. I'm saying there should be an end to the huge profits they make at the top end.
I did download alot of music when i fist got the capability. But that was mostly to get old stuff i had on vinyl onto CD more easily.
Got to say, that there has hardly been anything new that i've wanted in the last 5 years anyway. *L*
So, i'm probably not the best person to argue these points. Cos from where i stand the music these days is not worth a penny to me, nothing would make me buy it. Unless i was very desperate for a coaster for my coffee mug.
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